Root System of Brussel’s Chinese Elm

[jg1903]

I’m new to bonsai (first year). I ordered a couple of Chinese elm pre-bonsai from Brussel’s awhile back. I could feel something hard in the middle of the planter, but figured it was some growing medium or planter feature.

Awhile back, I pulled out one of them, and the trunk basically went into the soil and split into a “y” that was then cut off at a similar point on each side, with fine roots coming from those stumps. Are all of them like this? Is that normal? They’re the only Chinese elms I have, so I’m not sure. I ended up putting it in a larger pot, despite having a smaller pot I was going for.

It’s a bummer, because I wanted to chop a trunk down and go for a mini Shohin size, but those two massive stumps would never allow me to get it into the pots I was envisioning. Can I chop one off? Would the tree make it if I did? Thanks!

 

[caffeinated]

Usually when you order prebonsai online the roots are going to be a mess and it's one of the first things to try to deal with. You probably don't want to stick it in a smaller pot to start until you get the basic structure of the tree you want set up anyway. You want it to be able to grow a little more freely in a slightly oversized pot. You can air layer the tree (or ground layer) using part of the flare from the "Y" roots and start a new, much nicer root system. Post a pic of your tree and you'll probably get more help.

 

[Shibui]

Unfortunately Chinese elms tend to grow just a few, thick roots when left to their own devices.
Mass produced starters are grown as cheap as possible because most of us don't like paying more so the root pruning that would have alleviated this is not usually done to keep costs down.
Fortunately Chinese elms are also tolerant of hard root reduction so it is possible to chop roots to stimulate better root system in a relatively short timeframe. Without actually seeing the state of these roots it is hard to be definitive but I suspect you could cut one or even both those roots short, treat the trunk almost as a cutting and still get good root growth.
Alternative for anyone scared of going hard would be to ground layer just above the major fork.

 

[dbonsaiw]

It’s a bummer, because I wanted to chop a trunk down and go for a mini Shohin size, but those two massive stumps would never allow me to get it into the pots I was envisioning.

You shouldn't view it as a "bummer" - that's how they grow in the wild. Your job now is to work the roots to improve them. Par for the bonsai course.

And pre-bonsai don't usually find their way into a bonsai pot right away - the roots need to be worked, chops allowed to heal, trunk developed in a larger growing space.

Pics are always helpful, but I wouldn't just entirely lop off the large roots - you can prune them back and they should ramify and maybe cause other roots to grow at the base. You will also likely be very surprised how large a tree can be stuffed into a little pot when the time is right.

Nebari is king when it comes to bonsai - imho. So my new mentality when it comes to deciduous trees is prune back the roots hard at the first chance I get so that the nebari is developing properly. Then I can forget about the roots for a few years as the tree grows before the next repot. Take a shot, say a prayer, whatever, and then cut. As Ivan Drago said - "if he dies, he dies". If I can't get the roots set up, why am I bothering to develop the rest of the tree for many years to come?

And for what it's worth, I don't believe I've killed a single deciduous tree from a root pruning at the proper time (I've done plenty of other things to kill many a tree). In fact, I just did a really lousy job at taking a yardadori JM and managed to save only one root and it's budding.

 

[rockm]

I’m new to bonsai (first year). I ordered a couple of Chinese elm pre-bonsai from Brussel’s awhile back. I could feel something hard in the middle of the planter, but figured it was some growing medium or planter feature.

Awhile back, I pulled out one of them, and the trunk basically went into the soil and split into a “y” that was then cut off at a similar point on each side, with fine roots coming from those stumps. Are all of them like this? Is that normal? They’re the only Chinese elms I have, so I’m not sure. I ended up putting it in a larger pot, despite having a smaller pot I was going for.

It’s a bummer, because I wanted to chop a trunk down and go for a mini Shohin size, but those two massive stumps would never allow me to get it into the pots I was envisioning. Can I chop one off? Would the tree make it if I did? Thanks!

You're rushing things. Part of developing a shohin is starting with the roots. There aren't any seedlings that will allow chopping and plunking into a bonsai pot resulting in a mini-shohin bonsai right off the bat. That is why such small trees are typically the realm of experts. They require MORE work than larger trees. Part of that work is developing a great nebari.

Every seedling I've worked with from Elm, to Japanese and Amur maple --sourced from excellent places, have roots that need up-front attention and time to develop.

 

[rockm]

Also, mini-shohin isn't really a thing--there are three size categories below shohin in the informal classifications, you're likely thinking of mame or shito. There is a lot of overlap among categories, as well

FWIW:

• Keshitsubo: 1-3" (3-8 cm)
• Shito: 2-4" (5-10 cm)
• Mame: 2-6" (5-15 cm)
• Shohin: 5-8" (13-20 cm)