ROOTBOUND! What do YOU do?

[Mike Corazzi]

In another thread, I was discussing a very rootbound juniper.

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/i-just-against-advice-potted-a-rootbound-juniper.25289/

This is ...sort of.... a continuation, but not really.

I am conflicted on the RIGHT way to tackle an extremely potbound juniper.

On a PINE I had, I simply sawed through the rootball about midway and potted it.
It worked fine.

However, I have also had okay results with the "yank and pull" that I used on the bottom part of the rootball in this one.

In this one, the roots were SO compacted that ripping out ANY of them was a real CHORE. And I'm wondering WHAT was feeding the tree during such a compacted time.
I'm hoping that similar substrate in contact with the compacted roots will entice some NEW root development out of the compaction and into the looser soil. I managed to get SOME of the packed roots to poke out.

The wad is wintering in a WAY larger soil mass right now.

The original top of the packed ball is visible in this pic of the top of the potting.
.
So I'm wondering which (if any of the above methods)....YOU....have found workable.
I tellya, one of my ideas when looking at the almost solid mass was to take it out and SHOOT the rootball in an effort to blow apart the mass as it was impossible to follow any of the existing packed roots.

??????????????


Although I'm looking in this thread particularly for application to juniper, I'm gonna reference it in "General Discussion" as I'd like to get various opinions on various species.

 

[M. Frary]

With really rootbound conifers I do what @Vance Wood does.
Dig to the base of the tree. There is bound to be some trunk buried.
Then cut off a third up to maybe half from the bottom.
Then cut slices in from the outside to the base.
Put it in a colander working bonsai soil in wherever you can and let it alone for at least a year.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

I....tried.... to "dig" to the bottom of the trunk.
NOTHING I tried....BIG screwdriver, hammer, butcher knife, trowel..... would penetrate the mass.

 

[0soyoung]

I....tried.... to "dig" to the bottom of the trunk.
NOTHING I tried....BIG screwdriver, hammer, butcher knife, trowel..... would penetrate the mass.

If you don't have a root hook, get one. Many people prefer a chop stick instead.

Drag it across the surface, from the trunk outward, until you locate the base of the trunk. Nursery material tends to get tossed into a larger pot when it becomes pot limited and added soil is also tossed on top. A mat of roots tends to grow into this 'topped up' area - knock off the pot and comb it out with a root hook. A jet of water from your garden hose may also help loosen things up so you can comb out the mess on top.

 

[GrimLore]

I....tried.... to "dig" to the bottom of the trunk. NOTHING I tried....BIG screwdriver, hammer, butcher knife, trowel..... would penetrate the mass.

You have a situation that is going to take a few years to remedy to your liking without killing the plant. I would STRONGLY recommend you take the plant to someone who knows what I mean and do it under their supervision. HRB and pie cut methods along with getting rid of swirling roots is complicated enough without experience. What you describe sounds like it needs far more.

Grimmy

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Ah-so. Me likeee!

 

[justBonsai]

Depends on the tree. Some can tolerate aggressive root pruning and bare rooting so on trees like those I just remove most of the entangled roots and give it careful aftercare to recover in the following season. I had a severely pot bound hinoki before that had a solid root mass. In my first repotting I went too aggressive and it sulked for the next year. Now for trees that I slowly transition to a new mix I will drill or poke holes in the solid root mass to allow for better aeration and drainage. I find this works well enough until a new root system in the desired soil is developed.

 

[wireme]

I like the poke, wiggle, shake and tease method. Something like this to poke with.
My favourite tool is a chainsaw file with the rasps taped over, using the pointy end.
Poke and wiggle to loosen. Work from the outside in. Shaking once loosened up a bit so soil falls through. Maybe not the whole rootball like a terrier with a gopher, just vibrating the loosened area. Eventually comb and tease out the loosened tangled mess with fingers. Along the way you can prune out coarse roots to reduce the ball more and help loosen. If it's really, really root bound and tight it seems impossible for a while but with enough patience and shallow pokes in the right places eventually things loosen up. Can be used in combination with any of the things others mentioned above of course.
Maybe not the entire rootball at once either, portions can be left undisturbed until the next round.

 

[Ironbeaver]

This seems to be the one issue/demonstration that always seems missing from beginner demos. It's always an initial styling of the top then we can't do the roots because it's the wrong time. Kill a $10 nursery tree so people can see HOW to go about it.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Ok...
We've seen this movie before. Three threads by a relative newcomer, all asking if it's ok to do season-specific work, out of season. Usually it's someone looking for a "go ahead" answer, so here you go: "Go Ahead". Go ahead and give it a shot and let us know how you fare. I already know. So do all the pros and all the enthusiasts who went ahead and gave it a shot and had to learn the hard way, that everything is seasonal for a reason. You might get away with some work sometimes, but sooner or later, anyone who sticks around and has good trees starts to understand why we do certain work at certain times.

BTW, in case I'm entirely wrong: if your tree is rootbound, learn how to water a rootbound tree. It won't get worse in the 90 days an experienced bonsai practitioner would wait until it's safe to repot in your area.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Why do I feel scolded?

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Today is voting day.

 

[GrimLore]

Ok...
We've seen this movie before. Three threads by a relative newcomer, all asking if it's ok to do season-specific work, out of season. Usually it's someone looking for a "go ahead" answer, so here you go: "Go Ahead". Go ahead and give it a shot and let us know how you fare.

Well stated

Guess what?
I shouldn't tell you because it is dumb.
Oh I will anyway.
I had FORGOTTEN about the strong stream of water gambit.
Worked swell.

As Brian said. Just remember you have gone against all advice and proceeded for your own comfort... You did not listen prior, you did not listen afterwards... My personal thoughts on this issue have been stated as well as many others. Your response brings me to a new point - may as well bring it inside for the Winter as it will die anyways...

Grimmy

 

[Random User]

The first thing I do with any tree is go on the Net and see if it is adverse to root pruning/repotting... then I find the top of the rootball by slowly remove the loose-ish soil from the top. Like someone said earlier, often times the pots have been "topped up" with soil from the last over-winter, because all they do here is lay all of the trees down on their side and pull heavy tarps over them for the winter and hope they get a good snow cover. Once I've found the top, I then poke in the centre of the root ball from the bottom and try to find the underside of the root mass... then I use a really rusty old wood working saw (don't know why this works the best but it does IMHO) and take slices off of the root ball from the bottom... after each cut I search for the bottom of the root mass again... then possibly cut again with the rusty saw. Only once I've found the top and the bottom do I try and rake out the roots... if they are going 'round and 'round the pot like they usually do, I simply cut them off if they are as thick as a HB pencil... eventually the cut portion will come out with raking. Once I am happy with the outcome, I clean up the cut on the bottom (usually a tap root) with an angle grinder and a 60 or 80 grit sanding disc... then pot it.

The most important part about the entire process though, is (like Brian said) "the right time" of year to be doing such a thing. There are always reason that we feel we might "have to" do this and some are warranted, but impatience is not a good reason... ask the guilty man <---- lol.

 

[Random User]

It's odd how we can "grow out of" impatience, but we can't seem to ever "grow into it"... maybe it's because growing out of it sometimes costs us money and material.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Oh to know what people think they know.
How superior I would feel.

 

[Random User]

Don't get me wrong Mike, I'm not being condescending... I have a tendency to "always do things wrong, before I do them right"... lol...

It's only that I've cost myself money and material before that I'm not messing with a cedar that I got really cheap right now... you and I are about "one dead tree" away from being clones of one another.

 

[Random User]

... for the record, it's never in my nature (or interest) to be mean to other people... especially when you've never done anything to me to warrant it.

 

[GrimLore]

Oh to know what people think they know. How superior I would feel.

Wow... You know the timing is incorrect and go ahead anyways, and then ask how to salvage your plant... There are many combined years of experience here and although you asked you choose to ignore? WTF?
I did mention if slip potted it should be ok... It is necessary if a pot gets broken or some other calamity occurs. You then proceed and do work that will most likely kill it anyways.
You question what "I think I know" - then honest fawk off as I will never try to be helpful to you if you ask again... Serious, you have either a bad Holier then thou attitude or either under or over medicated yourself...

Grimmy

 

[Mike Corazzi]

... for the record, it's never in my nature (or interest) to be mean to other people... especially when you've never done anything to me to warrant it.

We're cool. I have PMs from others with LOTS of experience that have given me advice I have taken.
They ....and....I expect this tree will be fine.