Rooting a Dawn Redwood Metasequoia waterspout cutting?

[Rivka]

I know of an amazing Dawn Redwood (Metasequoia) that has been throwing waterspouts for a few years it seems, I have read that this species will root hardwood cuttings. So I was pondering if I could carefully take off this clump and root it? It apears to have shoots from each of the past couple of years within it, all growing like a maniac. It just finished dropping its needles in the last few weeks.

Thoughts?
Best season to take the cutting? (Dormant, or after first flush hardens maybe
Technique for best rooting chance?

 

[penumbra]

I can't say about Redwood specifically, but generally speaking, watersprouts are difficult to root and have undesirable traits long super elongation between nodes.
That is in no way a reason not to try if you have the time and desire.

 

[Shibui]

I get good rooting rates from Dawn redwood cuttings. Not specifically watersprouts though that is really just vigorous growth so should not be too much difference.
I've mostly used dormant hardwood up to 2cm thick and 20cm long treated with hormone gel and kept under mist but dormant cuttings generally root well with less care.
Have also rooted cuttings during the growing season but that does require more care to maintain humidity so they don't dehydrate before making roots.

 

[penumbra]

Just to give you my full story, watersprouts are supposed to be very difficult to root. I remember learning this in a college plant propagation class about 40+ year ago. The physiology of a watersprout is supposedly quite different than that of parts of a plant exhibiting normal growth. Our instructor discouraged us from even attempting it because they claimed we would have no success.
So technically you could say that my experience was hearsay, but it was from the professor who claimed to be knowledgeable in this endeavor. I believe it had something to do with watersprouts being too tender and basically mostly water and sugar with few or none of the normal hormones. What I took away from this was that watersprouts are not just vigorous growth, but have a different physiology than normal growth. My memory could be flawed, it is certainly incomplete in this matter.
Honestly, I hope you try it, but I hope you try it in a stable environment with controls. The watersprouts suggested in my experience were from deciduous plants, I believe maples, and not from conifers.
Best of luck. Hope you have success.

 

[GreatLakesBrad]

Second @Shibui comments, in-season cuttings are difficult, but not impossible, to root for Dawn redwood. I’ve had about 25-30% success rate in season.

Will now try dormant, thanks for the tip

 

[Rivka]

thanks for the feedback and input folks, keep it coming.
I’m certainly going to try it, I almost have to now! And yeah will greenhouse and bottom heat it for sure.

1. What “soil” do y’all think I should stick it in?
2. Will have to sort out what root-hormone application to aim for, deciduous conifer falls outside of most guides on the subject.
3. Portions of the clump are tall, maybe around 1 meter, do you think i should shorten it now so it has less to have to support, or leave it so it gets the most leaf out and energy return at first?
   Clearly the set up will focus most on stability, think i will likely afix the container to a table and put a strong upright to secure to. Keep giggling that it is going to look like a Saturn 5 Rocket on the launchpad.
4. Think I’ll take a few more traditional cuttings and do otherwise similar treatment to them and see what variation of outcome I get.

 

[Shibui]

Larger cuttings are still hard wood even if they are from a deciduous conifer so rooting hormone for hardwood cutting is the way to go. I use clonex red on almost all cuttings and still get good rooting.
Propagating mix (soil) varies from place to place and grower to grower but usually consists of good particles for drainage and some moisture holding portion. I use around 50/50 perlite/coir now.

 

[andrewiles]

DR species roots really easily from hardwood cuttings in my experience. Some cultivars not so much. No experience with water sprouts though.

Last March I dropped a bunch of leftovers from trunk chops in plain potting soil. Up to 1" in diameter. Used CloneX. They almost all rooted by mid summer. Key is to keep them moist and in shade until you see a second flush of growth. First flush comes before the roots.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

I would wait until spring when the buds are sweling, then make the cuttings, use a good rooting hormone, put them in a sterile well aireated substrate like perlite mixed with pomice or something and keep them in a high humidity enviroment to help the new buds grow and dont dry up

 

[penumbra]

I remember reading a couple years ago to take your hardwood cuttings early to mid winter, soaking in a liquid hormone mix and storing them in a cold but frost free environment until late winter / early spring before planting. The author of this method said that root callus would be well formed by that time and roots would soon emerge. I have too much in my head, including holes for information to leak out, for me to remember where I read it, but it resonates for me. I don't have access to cuttings tough.
The obvious thing to try is multiple methods to see what works best for you.

 

[Rivka]

looks like I'm building a new heat bed this week, so going to finish that and then take this cuttings and put them up on that. thats for the input. I'm going to look at taking some traditional hardwood cuttings at the same time and see how they differ if at all over the growing season or two.

 

[penumbra]

Great idea. Also take cutting at different times. Generally speaking you want to take hardwood cuttings Before buds swell.

 

[Rivka]

Good idea, glad I’m making that heat bed “too big”. Looks like I need to make some secure trackable labels now too

 

[Gaitano]

I found this in my reminders (March 1st) on my phone.
Put cuttings in water for 2days. Dip in rootone F and plant in moist organic. Plant in mid June.

I did take cuttings (smaller in size) last spring and did this (used regular powder rooting hormone) and the moist organic I used was 50/50 perlite and good garden soil. I think most of them took.

 

[Rivka]

anyone got a link to a good education primer on types and proper uses of rooting hormones? i feel like i have been blundering thru that aspect for too long

 

[BrierPatch]

Keep us updated on your progress, I'm interested to see how they turn out. I am going to try this with normal cuttings of DR on mine probably March 2023 after I get a full year of growth on my 24" bare root plantings I did this winter.
So it will be interesting to see how your success or fail experiences were.

 

[LCD35]

So how did the cuttings turn out?

 

[Rivka]

• I had about 1/3 never take,

• another 1/3 start to take and get killed by an unexpected early hot week i was out of town,
but that was also kinda informative because I could see a surprising amount of roots on them for so early in the year (they died in early June)

• the last 1/3 are growing strong, crazy strong,
so i am left to assume they have roots like the other ones but managed to survive the heat better.

I have them in fine hard pumice and an organic/sphagnum mix at about 70/30
they were on a heat bed all the way thru may, we had a nasty cold wet spring here and really crazy swings in temps, so i wanted to keep things even for them, it was set at 70f in the beginning and turned down to 60f later to help them adapt to being on their own.
I didnt expect any real root grown till late august, but now that i know i have some, i am going to start a very light fert

 

[Rivka]

the largest watersprout clump was in group 2, make a good start of things and was taken out by heat. sad.