Rosemary as Bonsai?

[Attila Soos]

alright I gotta know.... I've seen this said about several species of trees/shrubs before... I want to know what is so alluring or "great" about "being styled like a pine" .... what does that mean or refer to?

Great question. The reason why it's great, is that there is no right or wrong answer to it.

Some people love to style every species like pine bonsai. So, for them, styling a rosemary is no different from styling any other tree. To my commment, they would respond "mmm...yes, and what else is new?"

But I belong to those who love "pine style bonsai" as long as they are used on actual pines...with some exceptions, of course. And rosemary is a great one, because in nature, it is a form-less, shape-less mess of a shrub. There is no point of trying to emulate any aspect of a rosemary bush, when styling a bonsai. So, we have no choice but to look for something else, for inspiration.

We can start looking at at old oaks, or old maples for instance, but rosemary lacks seasonality, and its leaves look like needles, for heaven's sake. So it would look very odd, to make it look like an oak, or a birch. On a micro-level, it has some features that actually remind us of old conifers: contorted deadwood, jin and shari, gnarly branches, and needle-like leaves. And, it is ridiculously easy to induce new branches from almost anywhere you want. You can have four generations of branching in a single season: primary, secondary, tertiary, and so forth.....thats because the plant continuously grows from May till September, here in So. California.

So, if you would like to create a great bunjin-style pine bonsai, but have not yet find the perfect pine material for it (or have not yet learned the intricacies of working with pines), here is your cance to do it with a rosemary. It's cheap, fast, and fun.

Junipers and pines are in fact the ONLY good examples to follow, when styling a rosemary. So, you have no excuse not to do one yourself. Besides, your wife will love it too, since this bonsai smells like Christmas, and tastes good with chicken.

So, what are you waiting for?

 

[Attila Soos]

Can anyone with experience working with rosemary comment on the warning I've often heard/read - that they do not handle repotting/root pruning very well?

Chris

This is true to some extent. When collecting rosemary from wild (or digging from the yard), they can die even when you save a lot of roots. But they can also survive with little roots sometimes. The season when you do it, and the aftercare are critical. You don't want to do it when it's too cold (the roots will not grow in cold weather), but too much heat can also kill it. The best is a balmy, but partially overcast weather, when recovering from root-pruning.

However, once established in a pot, it is rather safe to re-pot. I had mine for years, and it's one of the easiest plants to grow.

 

[Attila Soos]

I don't really get why people are always trying to attain the pine look. If you want a pine look so badly...get a pine! I'm sure if you go to the Mediterranean you can find some naturally stunted, ancient looking rosemary bushes. I would aspire to get my rosemary to look like that. I've even seen deciduous and azalea bonsai with those overlapping pads of foliage that are so reminiscent of pines. It just looks a bit silly to me.

T

The reason is, that finding great pine material can be very expensive (they start at several hundred, and the sky is the limit), and can be difficult (even the good and expensive pine materials are rather boring most of the time). Great bunjin-style pine material is EXTREMELY rare. On the other hand, almost every decent rosemary bush looks like great bunjin-style pine material.
Also, training a pine is difficult, whereas training a rosemary is easy.

There is nothing silly about styling azaleas or rosemaries like pines. These bushes don't have a tree-form, so it would be just as silly to style them as maples or oaks.

 

[Attila Soos]

....as for Rosemary they can be styled in many wonderful ways and there are even pink flowering varieties (i have one in the herb garden) .... upright they can have a very oaktree style to them and it you have a weeping variety you can train the trunk up and let it weep like a willow .... they obviously can be styled in wonderful cascades or even like large azaleas .... take your pick ...

here is one looking like a juniper:
http://www.bonsaiinformation.com/01 Tosho.jpg

The weeping syle is not a bad choice for a rosemary. And the long and narrow leaves are not unlike the willow leaves at an extremely reduced scale.

The problem is that the rosemary develops very compact foliage pads, in a very short time. Which is the antithesis of the weeping style, that requires lanky, loose, and sparse foliage. You will go crazy, trying to thin the unpenetrable pads year round. Also, you have to constantly wire the new shoots downwards, in order to get the weeping. I leave it to the masochists to do all that work.

But a compact foliage is exactly what you need, for a pine style bonsai. A perfect match. You can even develop little upward-looking shoots that look like candles.

 

[coh]

This is true to some extent. When collecting rosemary from wild (or digging from the yard), they can die even when you save a lot of roots. But they can also survive with little roots sometimes. The season when you do it, and the aftercare are critical. You don't want to do it when it's too cold (the roots will not grow in cold weather), but too much heat can also kill it. The best is a balmy, but partially overcast weather, when recovering from root-pruning.

However, once established in a pot, it is rather safe to re-pot. I had mine for years, and it's one of the easiest plants to grow.

I guess what I'm concerned about is root reduction in general. I'm growing a plant out in a large nursery pot (they're not ground hardy here) so eventually it will be "collected" in a sense and the roots will have to be reduced. Since it's starting in a pot I can do the reduction gradually so maybe there won't be too much risk? But it will still be reduction and that's what I've always read is dangerous for rosemary.

Chris

 

[Attila Soos]

Yes, gradual reduction is the key. And not too early spring for the rootwork.

With my rosemary, 2011 was the first year I moved it from a nursery can into a small bonsai pot. It is still too deep for a final pot, but it was a big change for the tree. But it hasn't missed a beat, and doing great since last spring.

 

[Ang3lfir3]

The weeping syle is not a bad choice for a rosemary. And the long and narrow leaves are not unlike the willow leaves at an extremely reduced scale.

The problem is that the rosemary develops very compact foliage pads, in a very short time. Which is the antithesis of the weeping style, that requires lanky, loose, and sparse foliage. You will go crazy, trying to thin the unpenetrable pads year round. Also, you have to constantly wire the new shoots downwards, in order to get the weeping. I leave it to the masochists to do all that work.

You are just trying to make me take pictures of the one at Elandan aren't you (weeping with little to no work or wire)

 

[Attila Soos]

You are just trying to make me take pictures of the one at Elandan aren't you (weeping with little to no work or wire)

I haven't thought about it, but since you've mentioned, I'd love to see it. Dan's trees are such a treat, I will never forget the day spent there last summer. Let's see what Dan does with his rosemaries. Weeping can work when doing large bonsai, and it's a pain when styling small ones. Also, there is the prostrate (ground-hugging)variety of rosemary, and the erect ones. I don't really like the prostrate one, but for cascade and weeping, it must be better suited. Big difference in growth habits.

 

[Bill S]

I'll toss in another good banter, on this subject guys.

I too have seen some of the upright varieties done as bonsai, good trunk material from the ones I have seen.

 

[Ang3lfir3]

you were here last summer and didn't let us know .... Vic and I would have come down and hung out with you!!!

 

[Attila Soos]

you were here last summer and didn't let us know .... Vic and I would have come down and hung out with you!!!

I know, I should have planned it better.

 

[edprocoat]

I just got down into Fl. a few days ago and the rosemary plants are here at the Homer Depoo too, difference here is they are shaped the same, both Christmas tree like and topiary ball on stick just they are smaller diameter trunk and $5.00 more expensive. The ones back home had about a 3/4 inch trunk on both varieties, here the Christmas tree ones have about five to six 1/8 inch trunks trimmed to look like a tree and the topiary ones have about a 3/8 inch trunk. I wish I would have bought one up north as they also seemed healthier as they were not as dried out looking either, and saving a fiver is a good thing. I am still searching though and I found some in two different Homer Depots and the ones in lowes were even worse, maybe they grow better up north?

ed

 

[ABCarve]

This is a prostrate rosemary I started from a small cutting about 18 years ago. I just wanted it as an ornamental in the garden. I heard about the touchy roots, so I just kept slip potting it into something bigger (1st photo). A few years ago I noticed, hmmm this might make a nice bonsai and started reducing the foliage to see what it might be. The caliper at the base is about 2.5". This fall (mid Nov.)I repotted, reducing from a 14 x 14 x13 to 10 x 10 x 10. It's doing beautifully and still flowering in the chilly (50-60 deg.) greenhouse. I think in a couple years I'll try to squeeze it to an 8 x 8 x ?. It's weeping growth habit, hopefully will drape down a bit and fill in.

 

[Joedes3]

I've always wondered about using herbs as bonsai. Thank for the pictures.
Joe De

 

[tanlu]

ABCarve, thank you again for posting these photos! That's a wonderful trunk you got there. I would reduce the foliage even more to make the trunk look bigger. I've seen some amazing rosemary bonsai just via google search. Try typing "rosemarinus bonsai" instead of "rosemary bonsai", and you'll get too see some wonderful European specimens.

T

 

[ABCarve]

We can start looking at at old oaks, or old maples for instance, but rosemary lacks seasonality, and its leaves look like needles, for heaven's sake. So it would look very odd, to make it look like an oak, or a birch. On a micro-level, it has some features that actually remind us of old conifers: contorted deadwood, jin and shari, gnarly branches, and needle-like leaves. And, it is ridiculously easy to induce new branches from almost anywhere you want. You can have four generations of branching in a single season: primary, secondary, tertiary, and so forth.....thats because the plant continuously grows from May till September, here in So. California.

I read back in this thread that they back bud. I have a smaller one that was pruned very hard leaving a small amount of green at the terminals. I have yet to see evidence of this on either tree. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[bonsaibp]

I just got down into Fl. a few days ago and the rosemary plants are here at the Homer Depoo too, difference here is they are shaped the same, both Christmas tree like and topiary ball on stick just they are smaller diameter trunk and $5.00 more expensive. The ones back home had about a 3/4 inch trunk on both varieties, here the Christmas tree ones have about five to six 1/8 inch trunks trimmed to look like a tree and the topiary ones have about a 3/8 inch trunk. I wish I would have bought one up north as they also seemed healthier as they were not as dried out looking either, and saving a fiver is a good thing. I am still searching though and I found some in two different Homer Depots and the ones in lowes were even worse, maybe they grow better up north?

ed

Try a real nursery.

 

[edprocoat]

Try a real nursery.

LOL, I had forgot about this thread ! I hardly ever pass a nursery, odd thing is I have yet to see a nursery that has carried a Rosemary plant. I have asked and been told they can get seeds, or to try an herb garden store. Now this may be the case only in Ohio or Florida but that's been my experience.

ed

 

[mat]

Home Depots around here have rosemary plants in herb section. Probably Lowe's too.

 

[Wee]

And if they have any left after Christmas they are dirt cheap....