Rotating trees indoors (for home, for show, etc.)

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I haven't been able to find much information about this online - the results of most searches are overwhelmed by questions from people new to the hobby who would like to keep trees indoors (or think you have to) full time.

I noticed that nurseries appear to rotate trees through an indoor display area for a few days? weeks? at a time, and I was wondering what the limitations are? My questions are about deciduous/maples and prunus mume, but maybe others are interested in other species too?

my own primary questions:

middle of the summer: how long can a maple in full leaf be brought indoors during the summer: days, weeks?

early fall: Nationals (september) must be 3 days indoors, with only artificial light and room temperature?

late fall: can a maple be brought indoor at 20C (68F) in december, once the leaves have fallen, but maybe before full dormancy? if so, for how long? Lack of light would not be a problem, but what about sudden temperature increase?

during dormancy: what about during dormancy? how long can a maple be brought inside without it waking up? I think kokufu is in february, but maybe they just launch into an spring early?

prunus mume: can it brought indoors during flowering (at 20C = 68F), and then returned to the cold frame to continue dormancy keeping it above freezing, or once is hits 20C (68F) it cannot go back to 2C (35-36F)?

Thank you all!
 

Anthony

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The idea behind growing indoors -

[1] How many lux / candles , high and low temperatures, breeze [ air movement ]
Root tolerance in a Bonsai pot to temperatures.

[ 2] There is a Brooklyn Botannical book on Indoor Bonsai.

[3] You simply need to know the monthly averages.
Good Day
Anthony

* You can display indoors for a day or two.
 

Anthony

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Think about what I wrote.

For eample -

Middle of summer - Light, temperature - brought indoors ...........................
 

Victorim

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I'd guess a day or two before things will be affected.

*edit, missed the last line of Anthony's post :)
 
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@Smoke i feel like you have experience with indoor displays :) any tips please?
 

Dav4

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I’ve had trees at shows for three or four days, completely indoors during that time, both in the fall and in the spring. None have been affected in any way. I suspect the longer they are kept indoors, though, the more likely they will lose Strength or potentially suffer sunburn to their foliage when they are re-introduced to the outdoors.
 
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Thank you @Dav4 @Smoke

what about winter? for either maples or a flowering prunus mume?
 

Smoke

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I reread your opening post a couple times.

I don't understand the question with regards to why, do you want to bring them in? For display or working on them? What is the reason for indoors and what's the time frame you are looking at?
 
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why, do you want to bring them in? For display or working on them? What is the reason for indoors and what's the time frame you are looking at?
Thanks for following up Al, i appreciate the questions!

The question first came up for me when i finally got my hands on a prunus mume, which has been flowering consistently for several years. I store my trees in a cold frame at 2C (35-36F) all winter, in an underground stairwell that leads to my basement. It is not at all a 'display' area, and i won't be able to enjoy those flowers.

So i was wondering whether it possible to temporarily bring my prunus mume into my dining room, for example, while it flowers (removing it from 35F, and into 68F for a few days? a week? two weeks?), and then return it to 35F to continue its dormancy until it leafs out a month or so later

I saw this video of a guy who gathers a bunch of ume in his restaurant in february:


but then I was thinking, kokufu is in february. after 3-4 days of kokufu, do these maples (and all other trees) go back into cold weather dormancy, or are they maybe put into a greenhouse to start an early spring? i was basically wondering whether it would be possible to bring in a tree, say, for 2-3 days at christmas or new years when family comes over, and then return it to the cold frame (without it waking up).
 

Smoke

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OK, this makes more sense now. So you wish to display a tree for a few days. I would think, (but I am the wrong guy to ask because my trees never need wintering so I have no experience with that at all) a few days would be OK. I would not do more than two days. Just to be safe. I have had trees leaf out at shows that would not have done so if they had stayed outside. For me thats not much of a problem. I just put them back outside and they just continue on.

For you that would much more of a problem. I think this is going to be a matter of testing during that part of the year and seeing just how the plants respond. Swelling of buds, etc. or even flowers!!!!
 
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@Smoke Thanks Al!

Haha i wish i had your weather some times! my cold frame is cramped running out of space fast :confused:
 
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@Brian Van Fleet i'm guessing same weather story? when your ume flowers it is already outside and can stay outside until leaf out and onwards?
 

Smoke

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Think about this. Kokufu are exhibited in February, but most of the trees are probably not grown much there. They are transported there to display, from probably much warmer regions of Japan.

Osaka and Kyoto are slightly warmer than Tokyo in February. Plum blossoms, considered a harbinger of Spring, make an appearance by the middle of the month.

Daily High
10.2 °C ( 50.4 °F)
2nd coldest month of the year
Daily Low
2.9 °C ( 37.2 °F)
2nd coldest month of the year
Rainfall
61.7 mm
3rd driest month of the year
Sunshine
135.4 hours
darkest month of the year

So transporting to a colder area to display is optimum for indoors for a week. Those temps for Osaka and Kyoto are just about what I experience. My colds may be a few degrees higher, but we do go weeks in the high 30's. The highs are dead on. Keep in mind that many of these trees are prepared for a few years for this one exhibit and then rested. Unfortunately we don't get to see the few months after the exhibit and what the trees look like six months later, or even a couple years later.
 

Adair M

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For Kokofu, they go to extraordinary lengths to make sure the trees are optimal for the show.

Shimpaku juniper would naturally be reddish brown at that time of year. So, to prevent that, trees and pines that are going to be considered for Kokofu are greenhoused all winter so they will be green during the show, which lasts a week. After the show, they would be returned to the greenhouse.

Ume are particularly tricky. They want them to just be beginning to bloom at show time! Prepping Ume fir Kokofu is “a dark art”! Lol! Especially when you consider that all the trees have to be brought to Toyko a couple weeks prior to the show. The judges then review the entries to decide which trees will actually be in the show a few weeks later! Can you imagine? Prepping the tree to look it’s best for the judging, transport it to Toyko, bring it home, and repeat it all over again in two or three weeks?

Naturally, the Ume would not be blooming at the time of the judging.

Smoke implies the trees may not look so good after the show because of the stress they incur. I beg to differ. These trees would get returned to the green house and get immaculate care. If the trees got harmed by being shown, they would change something to mitigate that. But they don’t have to because the trees do just fine.
 

0soyoung

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Smoke implies the trees may not look so good after the show because of the stress they incur. I beg to differ. These trees would get returned to the green house and get immaculate care. If the trees got harmed by being shown, they would change something to mitigate that. But they don’t have to because the trees do just fine.
You seem to be saying @Adair M, that trees at the Kokofu are on display for a week and look as good at the end of that week as the day they went on display. And they do because they know that they are going back to the greenhouse?

Is there any kind of special care they get during the show? I presume that somebody comes around every so often (2 hours?) and sprays a bit of water on the substrate. I presume that it isn't too big a deal to know how much water to spray on to keep the roots damp and not have it drip out of the pot onto the other display elements. I suspect they don't do anything in the way of elevating the humidity in the exhibit hall and that the hall itself is maybe a bit chilly (say below 20C/68F) or maybe the hall isn't heated at all. I've not been to one and these details don't ever seem to get mentioned.
 

Adair M

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You seem to be saying @Adair M, that trees at the Kokofu are on display for a week and look as good at the end of that week as the day they went on display. And they do because they know that they are going back to the greenhouse?

Is there any kind of special care they get during the show? I presume that somebody comes around every so often (2 hours?) and sprays a bit of water on the substrate. I presume that it isn't too big a deal to know how much water to spray on to keep the roots damp and not have it drip out of the pot onto the other display elements. I suspect they don't do anything in the way of elevating the humidity in the exhibit hall and that the hall itself is maybe a bit chilly (say below 20C/68F) or maybe the hall isn't heated at all. I've not been to one and these details don't ever seem to get mentioned.
0so, I don’t know the temperature of the room. It’s the basement of an art gallery.

I’m sure someone goes around and waters the trees. (That’s what apprentices are for!)

Are the trees as pretty at the end of the week? Maybe, maybe not. An Ume at its peak on day one would be past its prime on day 6. Something like a shimpaku or a pine, it would not make any difference. Do the deciduous start to come out of dormancy? I don’t know. I’d ask Boon, but he’s in Thailand right now. Ryan, Tyler, Hagedorn, Reel, Bjorn, Coffey would know. But, think about it... if it did serious harm to the trees, do you think they would continue doing it year after year after year? Hardly! They’d change dates or something.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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@Brian Van Fleet i'm guessing same weather story? when your ume flowers it is already outside and can stay outside until leaf out and onwards?
Yes, it stays outside, but I’ll bring it in for a few hours or a day or two at a time during blooming. If it drops below freezing while in bloom, I bring it inside and leave it in the basement. After blooming ends, it stays outside and is dormant until late March/early April.
 

Smoke

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For Kokofu, they go to extraordinary lengths to make sure the trees are optimal for the show.

Shimpaku juniper would naturally be reddish brown at that time of year. So, to prevent that, trees and pines that are going to be considered for Kokofu are greenhoused all winter so they will be green during the show, which lasts a week. After the show, they would be returned to the greenhouse.
Sounds like a lot of stress to me.


Smoke implies the trees may not look so good after the show because of the stress they incur. I beg to differ. These trees would get returned to the green house and get immaculate care. If the trees got harmed by being shown, they would change something to mitigate that. But they don’t have to because the trees do just fine.
I did not imply that at all. What I did imply is that we do not get to see the rest period that these tree go thru. Maybe no candle pruning that year or what ever measures they may do. Maybe not pruned as hard for that year, I have no idea. My implication was not that the trees look like shit after a week. Why would you even think that?

The trees do just fine......
 

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