Rough timeline for germination

[Haines' Trees]

Hey all,

So I've been attempting to grow a few different species from seed this winter. Some have come out of stratification while some are still in the fridge. I've never tried to grow from seed before and I'm having a heck of a time trying to find sources on about how long to expect before I see them sprout.

All seeds have undergone or are currently undergoing stratification and I did soak the seeds and sort out floaters and sinkers, so I should have eliminated most of the duds that way. Sprout time depends on a variety of factors I'm sure (I've got a light and germination mats, plus I've been watering according to the sources I find on given species), but if anyone has a rough ballpark idea of how long before they pop up I'd appreciate it.

The species I have are as follows:
Atlas Cedar Coastal Redwood
Chinese Sweetgum Cork bark Elm
Japanese Black Pine Japanese Red Maple
Japanese White Pine
Hinoki Cypress

The seeds that have been in the dirt the longest (the cedars) have been there for almost a month. I'm hoping I'm not just wasting my time making the dirt a little wet every day....

 

[0soyoung]

It sounds like you've sewed the seed in pots and put the pots in the frig. The most convenient thing to do, IMHO, is to place a few seeds on a small square of plastic (makes them easy to remove) laid in a fold of damp paper towel. One or more of these packets go into a sandwich bag (or similar) and into the frig.

Regardless, my basic routine is 6 weeks in the frig. (call it a month if you want), then remove from the frig and leave in the room for a few days. Open the packets, remove and plant the germinated seeds, and return the ungerminated seeds to the frig for another couple of weeks, etc. Repeat. Quit when you run out of ungerminated seeds or are just tired of the whole affair. It is maybe easier for you to figure it out this way, than it is to find reference listings of stratification times. Have you consulted Deno's book in the BNut References?

Many species such as pinus thunbergii a fair fraction of seeds will germinate with no stratification. For them, stratification just increases the rate of germination. For others, such as stewartia pseudocamellia, basically nothing will germinate without a lengthy stratification (i.e., one year). Acer palmatum, acer shirasawanum, acer platanoides, acer circinatum all take about 6 weeks. Douglas fir, and I think coastal redwood (seqjuoia sempervirens) takes something more than 6 weeks to germinate at all.


btw. I've not found the floating seed test to not be reliable, generally speaking. If you are curious, next time stratify your floaters separately.

 

[Housguy]

I don't have any experience with the species you have mentioned, but I do have experience with cork oak from acorn and once I see the acorn starting to open, I put it in a cup half buried lying flat and from there it usually takes about a month before I see the sprout popping out of the ground. I don't know if that even helps you, but take it for what it is worth.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Beware "damp off" of seedlings.

 

[Shibui]

If you have the seeds in pots in the fridge they may not germinate because it is still too cold. Stratification in the fridge is just a pre treatment to get the seeds ready to sprout - like going through winter. The seeds naturally germinate in spring when it is warmer so they don't have to put up with snow and ice so they are programmed not to germinate when it is still cold. After you take them out of the fridge and keep them at room temp they think spring has come and should start to grow.
Good luck with the seeds. My experience with some of these is:
Black and Red pines - cold treatment is not necessary so I'd take them out right away. At room temp you should see seedlings in less than 2 weeks?
White pine needs cold to help open the thick seed shell. Search for some white pine germination threads on this site and get some good opinions on what works for others.
Japanese maple germinates quick and easy from fresh seeds but if they are stored for some time they can enter deep dormancy and it becomes extremely difficult to get them to grow so don't be surprised if you don't see any come up.
I have had poor results with Atlas cedar. Only a few germinate but maybe I need more cold treatment for those.
Cork bark elm- not sure which species that would be as there are several species that are called cork bark elm. Usually quite easy to grow like JM if seed is fresh but may have low germination from older seed.
I have no experience with hinoki, liquidamber or redwood from seed.

 

[eryk2kartman]

Check this:
https://www.treeseedonline.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
He has a good information about the stratification and germination for most of the species there.
I got some seeds from there and found instructions pretty accurate

 

[atlarsenal]

I use Sheffield’s as a guide even if I have collected them myself. Here is your Chinese Sweetgum https://sheffields.com/seeds-for-sa...san-Sweetgum,-Chinese-Sweet-Gum,-Formosan-Gum
Look at growing info at the bottom of the page. Also I have found it’s easier to find what you want using Google search “Chinese sweetgum Sheffield seeds” than using Sheffield’s search.

 

[Oleg]

I got JWP seeds and instructions from treehelp, they say (and I phoned to check if it wasn't either or) but no, 60 days warm AND 90 days cold. This puts planting and germination around July 24th. seems very long.

 

[eryk2kartman]

I started my seed stratification last year in September to have them ready for coming spring. I guess you miss the boat for this year.
Try to go for seeds that only needs 4-6 weeks in the fridge.

 

[Oleg]

I started mine, single flush and then three months to grow roots, could be okay.

 

[ThirdCoastBorn]

You can also try searching for the species name and "T50", which is a research term used for the number of days when half the seeds have germinated. The Deno seed resources have them for a lot of relevant species as well.

 

[GGB]

When they say that pre-treatment "synchronizes germination" they aren't messing around. I did JWP with 2 months of warm stratification followed by 3 months of cold strat. I planted the seeds out in my garden and figured they were duds, nothing happened. One day in July every seed germinated on the exact same day. Granted.. they were late to sprout and I have no clue why.. but it was so perfect. Not one seed poked through the soil before or after that day. My advice is be super patient with JWP because they are slow in everyway possible. They are worth money on their own roots if you hang onto some for a few years

 

[Haines' Trees]

I've had the seeds in little Ziploc bags with some fine peat mix that I moistened when I began. I check on them every now and again to make sure they haven't dried out. The seeds I've planted are in little 15x30 containers, which are each on their own germination mat and under a grow light. I have consulted Deno's writings actually! That and this forum are where I got a lot of the info as far as how long to leave them in the fridge. Maybe T50 was one of the symbols in those writings I'll have to look again.

I was specifically asking how long between planting (taking seeds out of their ziplocs and putting them into some dirt) and when I should expect to see little green things pop out of the dirt. Some have gone in more recently and I'm not really worried about them but I planted the first batch of seeds (atlas cedar) on Jan 15th. Are those seeds goners, or are they just doing their thing? If it takes 3 months before I see anything at all in the soil that's fine, but if I should have seen something in like 14 days then I'm wasting my time on that pot.

I am aware of the extraordinary length of time JWP takes to do anything. I know that'll be quite the time investment.

 

[Shibui]

6 weeks seems a long time for cedar to germinate. I would expect them a bit quicker but there are so many variables that I never throw out a seed tray for at least 6 months and better still keep them until next spring if you can (just leave them outside to get a real, natural stratification in winter). Patience can be rewarded occasionally.
As mentioned earlier, I have found cedars to have quite poor and erratic germination.

 

[Housguy]

Anyone have any experience germinating Juniper seeds? Is it similar to the ones mentioned above?