Runners

[Anjin Blackthumb]

Ok, so, I've searched and watched plenty of YouTube videos and looked at enough websites to choke Bill Gates, but cannot find anything that deals with how to take care of these runners. Every tree they're working on looks like it's been worked at least once, or it it really nice and compact.
Am I overthinking it? "just cut it off, dummy!"
I got a couple of these shimpaku and a sinensis "Buffalo" from a local nursery and they're chock full of leggy runners.

As a side question, does one ever take a horizontally running runner and bend it upward for an apex?

Any resources to deal with this, bring it back closer in? I got a great juniper book, but it's mainly for how to do trees for the Emporer. (ok, I'm exaggerating, but still....)

 

[leatherback]

What is your aim for the tree?

These runners are just branches growing out. If you clip them off, the branches nearer to the base will get stronger. You take the running tip out of those, and the branches on their base will get stronger. Etcetc. To get the densification.

You can also wire and place them. At some point you stop it from growing out and get the side-branches to push.

 

[Anjin Blackthumb]

Ok, so I'm overthinking it. Thanks for the reply!

So, the next question is, how far back? Only to the woody part? Back further as far as I dare?

Also, timing; ok to do this trimming this time of year? I understand it is better to wire in the fall. I'm still getting the hang of all the things you have to do at specific times.

 

[leatherback]

Depends on what you want to do.. We cannot style the tree for you, certainly not without seeing the whole tree!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

This should cover it to some extent.

Tutorial - How to trim and establish pads, Junipers pt1

This tutorial will deal with establishing pads in junipers. This method demonstrated here will show what the bonsai community as a whole, now considers the most widely excepted and best approach to dealing with junipers and their foliage. For a...

www.bonsainut.com

I let my runners go, so that the foliage closer to the trunk bulks up. Then in summer I cut back to that bulky foliage.
They make new runners, and I just keep them in check by letting those extend until they stop, then cut back again.
Repeat for a couple years, and you should be able to get some nice padding.

However, if your goal is to create a bigger tree, then leave them alone all together.

 

[Anjin Blackthumb]

Depends on what you want to do.. We cannot style the tree for you, certainly not without seeing the whole tree!

Aw, ya can't?

I'm not looking for someone to style a tree for me, I was just looking for information about how the leggy things behave and what I should do with them. Or rather, what an experienced designer would do. I didn't think it would be useful to show the tree, but I certainly can if it will help.

Wires guy, that's what I needed. I already read that tutorial, but I wasn't sure what role the very long runners played and how to deal with them. They seemed like a different situation. Thanks!

 

[sorce]

specific times.

Looks like that pictured is from Spring.
By the end of Fall you should see another terminal set of them.

It would be wise to keep them on to set your styling, help you through winter, and grow you new roots should you choose to Repot.

There is a lot of vital energy and goings-ons in them tips.

"Eww that's too long", is never a good reason to cut them!

Allow them to provide for you until they begin to disrupt your design.

Sorce

 

[Anjin Blackthumb]

Thanks, Sorce. The picture is from today. I presume these must be the second flush you are talking about. I got the plants a few days ago from a local nursery. I did trim a few of them back, but not all. I'll leave the rest on, per your advice, and we'll see what spring brings. Right now, there is no styling at all, it's just a nursery plant. I'm trying to plan how to make an initial go at wiring, perhaps in the fall, but for now, all I'm doing is cleaning it up around the insides.

 

[leatherback]

Right now, there is no styling at all, it's just a nursery plant. I'm trying to plan how to make an initial go at wiring, perhaps in the fall, but for now, all I'm doing is cleaning it up around the insides.

If you want to the point advice, show the tree and not just a few branches.
It makes a huge difference whether you are bulking up your trunk or setting the canopy.

 

[erich_raudebaugh]

They are necessary for your juniper to gain girth, so like others mentioned it all depends on your goals. I usually let some run for most of the year, and often trim them back in summer or fall. You can treat them a bit like sacrifice branches, and direct resources to wherever the most runners have been left alone, like a certain branch you want to gain strength. If you want a tree to thicken, just leave them alone for as long as you can stand it. Another useful technique is to let the tree run for a season, then cut all the runners off to produce back budding.

 

[sorce]

cleaning it up around the insides

Careful, this usually translates as "removing all the good useful branches".

Sorce

 

[Anjin Blackthumb]

This is great info, guys, thanks again.
I'm attaching photos of the trees I'm working on. The lighter one is a juniperus sinensis "buffalo" and the darker is a shimpaku. I photographed the top of the shimpaku to illustrate what I was talking about in terms of "cleanup." I took out the matchstick size branches growing out of crotches and the wee leaves on the inside that weren't doing anything.

 

[sorce]

presume these must be the second flush you are talking about

I took these a couple days ago, I think to answer this question.
This is like the beginning of my "fall growth".





So you should see another set of extensions.

Sorce

 

[Anjin Blackthumb]

I took these a couple days ago, I think to answer this question.
This is like the beginning of my "fall growth".

So you should see another set of extensions.

Sorce

Interesting. I see you're a Buffalo man also. I think there's a lot of potential in mine, I just don't have the design mojo yet to come up with a design that looks natural and flows well with a good focal point. I'm going to start with wire, see if anything emerges and prune after.

I'll look for those extensions.

So, if I wanted to prune major branches and get going on next year's refining, I should wait for those new extensions to develop so that the maximum effect on trunk thickening can be achieved. Do I understand that correctly?

Thanks, and sorry for all the dumb questions.

 

[sorce]

Buffalo

I am a "if I can make the folaige fit the trunk and it's not too expensive" kinda guy! But I gotta thing for Buffalo too!

So, if I wanted to prune major branches and get going on next year's refining, I should wait for those new extensions to develop so that the maximum effect on trunk thickening can be achieved. Do I understand that correctly?

If trunk thickening is your goal, this will help.

I do it more for the energy which converts to winter safety.

I think everyone prunes after growth. Some During.

I prune before growth. Or during these periods where the tree is calculating where it will grow next.

When the tree is asking itself, "what buds will I extend now?"
I remove all it's options.

Sorce

 

[leatherback]

For the shimpaku I would not remove a thing. Just select one branch that becomes the main trunk. WIre that in its final place. Let all branches run for another 2 seasons. The trunk will have doubled by then, which is worth the time on the long run.

 

[RKatzin]

The thing to remember is these trees will not out run you. It's safe to give them free rein and let them run on for a few seasons. In a session you can whip them right back in line and then you're all OMG look at that trunk! The key to developing junies is to have a few trees like maples or elms to chase after all summer and satisfy your bonsai cravings.

 

[Anjin Blackthumb]

The thing to remember is these trees will not out run you. It's safe to give them free rein and let them run on for a few seasons. In a session you can whip them right back in line and then you're all OMG look at that trunk! The key to developing junies is to have a few trees like maples or elms to chase after all summer and satisfy your bonsai cravings.

Yeah, that's the hard part. Leaving things alone. I'll have to slip-pot them in the spring, I think, but other than that, I'll let them steep a little longer. But that Buffalo juniper. I'm starting to see a pathway. I was going to go cascade, but I think there's a way to do a semi.