Saikei soil question

[randomatic]

What do you use for Saikei soil in the us? Every demo and picture I see has what looks like black potting soil.

I’ve watched frank Goya’s two tutorials on YouTube, and he just says “rich” soil. I’ve read gustafson book, and he talks about filtering ground soil.

ive got typical bonsai soil ingredients of akadama, pumice, and lava. Definitely looks like bonsai soil and not what I saw in pictures and videos.

What would you recommend I use to get the same look of it being natural soil?

 

[0soyoung]

APL is suitable. You probably want grains about 2mm unless you are making a pine composition - you'll likely want grains double that size.
Clay King is another international favorite. Turface MVP also works nicely, but it hard to find in many areas of the US.

But, you give no idea where you are (though it is clear that you weren't previously in the US and still may not be now).

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[randomatic]

APL is suitable. You probably want grains about 2mm unless you are making a pine composition - you'll likely want grains double that size.
Clay King is another international favorite. Turface MVP also works nicely, but it hard to find in many areas of the US.

But, you give no idea where you are (though it is clear that you weren't previously in the US and still may not be now).

Thank you! I'm actually in Pittsburgh, PA!

I realized my question was a bit off. My question is how do I make soil that looks like theirs, and is good for Saikei. My APL looks like APL rather than "dirt".

Here is an example of what I was looking for from Mr. Goya's video:

When I read Gustafson, he suggests organic material of bark, sawdust, steer manure, and compost screened. He has up to 3/4 of his mix organic, e.g. 3/4 organic for bald cypress and redwood and the rest inorganic. That's quite different than what I've used in bonsai, with zero percent organic. He also says that saikei is easier to take care of than bonsai because it has more soil.

So I had two bits of information, Goya suggesting a "rich" soil and Gustafson suggesting a ton of organic material. But I also know Gustafson's book is rather old, and sometimes perspectives change.

Again, what I'm hoping to do is come up with a soil mix that looks like "dirt"/"potting soil" and is healthy, if such a thing exists. Apologies if I'm wildly off base. My entire knowledge comes from books and youtube, with only about 1 year of practical experience.

 

[0soyoung]

Sphagnum moss turns blackish and looks like dirt after it has soaked for a while. Maybe use it as a top dressing - I do for the purposes of encouraging moss growth.
Full length strands are just too much like straw/hay. So some people work dry moss through a sieve screen to chop it into pieces, but I make sphagnum soup in an old blender and pour it onto the surface of the substrate (Surface, APL, etc.).

 

[randomatic]

Sphagnum moss turns blackish and looks like dirt after it has soaked for a while. Maybe use it as a top dressing - I do for the purposes of encouraging moss growth.
Full length strands are just too much like straw/hay. So some people work dry moss through a sieve screen to chop it into pieces, but I make sphagnum soup in an old blender and pour it onto the surface of the substrate (Surface, APL, etc.).

Thanks. Do you think that's what is in their mix? It makes sense.

I actually dyed some sphagnum moss on my last planting (mixed with ground up moss) for bonsai. It was kinda a pain, but managable I suppose if that's normal. I just saw those videos and text and was like "they say it's different than bonsai....but don't say HOW!!!"

 

[0soyoung]

I honestly have no idea. You just want it to look like dirt, IMO, and a simple top dressing will make it all look like dirt.

Another thought that just popped into my mind that composted bark is a good medium that would also be mistaken for dirt, or some might even consider to be dirt. It is used as a growing medium by most commercial growers in my part is the country. It would be better horticulturally than dirt/soil, IMHO.


I've had maples growing on an 18-inch porcelain floor tile, in a blob of Turface MVP (a high-fired Montmorillonite clay). I worked ordinary potter's clay into unchopped sphagnum for making muck walls around the Turface. I then planted moss on it and top dressed the Turface with chopped sphagnum so that moss would grow over it. Not 'official' saikei, but substitute a marble tray and add a bit of artistry to compose a scene and you've got what I think is saikei. I am aware of some saikei done by epoxying rocks to the slab instead of clay muck, etc., depending on the scene being represented. The mechanics would be the same and I would exclusively use a good inorganic substrate, such as MVP or APL, for the plants.

This (from Wikipedia) is what I think saikei is. I don't see dirt anywhere. Further, it won't last more than a few years if those trees are in an organic medium like dirt/soil/bark.