Sand Pine help

dpeter2101

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I am rather new to bonsai as I bought my first Elm just over a year ago. From this one bonsai I have gotten hooked. I wake and go to sleep thinking of bonsais. As I drive down the road I can’t help but check out the shape of full size trees for shapes I like. Since my first tree, I have purchased several other trees and collected maybe a dozen or two more. Most of what I have collected are what I would call “want to be bonsais”. These are trees that I have been practicing/playing with in an effort to learn more and to sooth this desire to have, make and collect bonsais.

With that said it brings me to my point. I live in Florida. Orlando to be exact and have had a large desire to have a pine bonsai. I did a little research on the Florida Sash Pine and was a little disappointed to read that most collectors felt it did not make a very good bonsai specimen. I could not find a nursery that had any pines and could not afford to buy a (real bonsai pine) off the internet. After a little more surfing I stumbled on a site that talked about a Sand Pine that is found in parts of Florida. I looked around a sure enough I found a large parcel of land that was being prepared for clearing. (More homes in Florida, Just what we need).

I’ll have to admit, I was a little excided when I found several small trees. There was one a little larger that caught my eye. It looks like it had been run over when they were bringing the clearing equipment in.

Anyways, I guess I still have not gotten to the point of this post.

I am attaching links to some photos of these pines in hopes someone will be able to tell me if they have the possibility of being shaped into something worth keeping as a bonsai. Some of these have long branches that I would like to cut back in hope it would force some back budding, but was not sure how to go about this on a pine. Most of what I read is needle plucking and pinching. What do you do when your branches are to long? I have topped some of the larger pines and taken a chance and pruned back some of the branches but before I do any more I would like so advice.

Also, I read that pines need to keep some of their original soil when collected. In Florida this can be a challenge as our soil is made up mostly of sugar sand. However, I was “in most cases” able to keep the soil around the roots. On the ones were the soil would not stay around the roots, I made sure to add some to the potting soil.

Any suggestions to help me with my efforts on keeping these pines alive?
One more item, I also found a nice Oak. I have not had a lot of success keeping Oaks alive after collection. Any thoughts?




Thanks

Dale
 
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Graydon

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Hi Dale, welcome! I'm in Lakeland so we're nearly neighbors so to speak.

I believe the pinus clausa (sand pine) could make a good bonsai given time and method. I'm getting ready to go out of town so I don't have a long time to spend on this but I will address it when I return. I'm actually meeting up with some bonsai people tomorrow to visit a nursery. We are hitting Mike Rogers in Deland - you should check it out based on where you are. You should also check out Jason Schley's place in Daytona. We are also hitting Ocala National Forest to check out the trees and the sand pine was one of the subjects of the visit. I'll have some good photos to post when I return.

Anyhow back to the pine. I have a few of them. Several dug and several from nursery material. The dug ones are better. I have a larger one in the yard and it has become my test subject to see how they respond to pruning at various times in the season. So far so good. The main issue I see is getting some nice mature bark on them.
 

dpeter2101

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Good luck Graydon, I hope you have a successful trip. I look forward to the photos.
 

Graydon

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I'm back. Good but short trip. Too tired to download and sort thru the photos tonight. I think I have some good ones of some mature trees, bark, growth patterns and such. I'll post as soon as I can.

I also spotted a ton of "witches brooms". One was right by the road... within reach... and I was taking a closer look when a few branches broke off in my hand... so I had to take them home with me. Going to graft them tomorrow to some JBP rootstock as well as sand pine rootstock. Nice stuff. Brent liked them and encouraged me to give it a go.

If you are in Orlando you really should take a drive up to Ocala National Forest. I believe you would enjoy the vast reaches of native trees. A day trip would be simple. Want directions send me a private message.
 

Graydon

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Here are some photos from the trip. These are examples of mature bark - something I have found difficult to get on a sand pines. I'm sure it's all about patience. The last one shows several different looks of bark on trees the same age.
 

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Graydon

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Here are some photos of typical trees. First is a young one like yours. Second may be 6 to 8 years old. Third one is a sick one (in Florida we call that fall color...) Last ones are mature trees.
 

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Graydon

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A few more mature trees.
 

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Graydon

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Here's the "witches broom". The first is a shot of normal needles from another tree. The second shows the mass. The third is from the side showing how dense it is and how close the internodes have grown. The last one is from below - what a mess. Reminds me of some of my yatsubusa JBP growth patterns if left to grow unpruned.

Sorry to thread jack. I hope you enjoy the photos.

I'm planning on starting a new thread to show the grafting of the scion material to various pinus rootstock. I have started grafting and will do the thread once I am complete.
 

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dpeter2101

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Great photos Garydon, I will look for your grafting thread. Maybe I will be able to use the grafting if back budding is a bust.

So far my pines look pretty good. However, I’ve seen a pine cutting look green and alive for weeks sitting on a work bench. Could you tell me how long before I will know if these trees will survive?

Anything I should do to help their chances? I have been keeping them watered a little more then I normally would. I have also been trying to mist the needles every day or two.

Should I try a rooting hormone product?

Thanks
Dale
 

Graydon

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Great photos Garydon, I will look for your grafting thread. Maybe I will be able to use the grafting if back budding is a bust.

So far my pines look pretty good. However, I’ve seen a pine cutting look green and alive for weeks sitting on a work bench. Could you tell me how long before I will know if these trees will survive?

Anything I should do to help their chances? I have been keeping them watered a little more then I normally would. I have also been trying to mist the needles every day or two.

Should I try a rooting hormone product?

Thanks
Dale

You are correct, sometimes the pines stay looking good for a few weeks or more before they .. pass. Misting the needles is good but do let them dry between misting or you may develop a fungus or other nasty.

Being they live in nearly pure sand void of organic matter I would let them dry down a lot before watering. I say that based on the soil in your photos. As odd as it sounds putting them back in pure sand would have been the best thing to do. But don't go doing it now. They need to recover and put out some new candles so you know they are kicking. Peraps next year. Just remember they like it a bit on the dry side.

Feed them. Use a water soluble stuff full strength every couple of weeks. If the make it they will explode as they have never gotten so much nutrition.

Rooting hormones only encourage roots on non root tissue - so adding some would not help. Don't trim anything as it's the top growth that builds roots vigor.

Keep us posted!
 

evmibo

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I know this thread is 4 1/2 years old and this may be a long shot but how are the sand pines coming along? I'm looking to collect some next February.

Also, maybe someone else here has some experience with them as well?
 
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evmibo

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Thanks Stacy,
That's a shame that you didn't have much success with them. Have you worked with Shortleaf Pine (Pinus echinata) or Spruce Pine (Pinus glabra) either? I'm trying to get some good scouting reports on the native 2 needle pines if you haven't noticed ;) , although the shortleaf and spruce pines may be out of my range.

That being said I see Australian "pine" all the time and to be honest I haven't even considered it due to leaf length. Do the leaves reduce well?

Thank you much,
Evan
 
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