Sandstone from Zion National

[Mike MoMo]

A Friend/Co Worker took a Trip to Utah and Brought this Back for Me! I'm in Love with It. Thinking of using it with my Ornery Barbados Cherry named "Jasper"

 

[sorce]

I think sandstone may have a pretty finite life under a tree...

And I reckon some trees may grow roots into some sandstone.

But I would consult a geologist.
@Alain what say you?

Sorce

 

[jkl2]

Technically, if this was gotten inside Zion National Park, your friend broke the law. NO collecting of anything (except trash) allowed.

A comment or two on the stone. True sandstone will last forever so don't worry about longevity -- IF that is sandstone. It looks like a chert to me, and further, it looks as if it may have been shaped by aboriginal hands. In which case, your friend committed a FELONY.

 

[Ironbeaver]

It does look a bit like a blade core, with some flakes removed. IF it's chert, there's no need to stabilize it. IF you think it was taken illegally, you can mail it back to the park with a letter of apology and they will add it to their pile. Perhaps it was picked up outside the park proper?

Unintentional looting was covered recently on one of the podcasts I listen to, here:
http://www.archaeologypodcastnetwork.com/archyfantasies/23

 

[Alain]

Technically, if this was gotten inside Zion National Park, your friend broke the law. NO collecting of anything (except trash) allowed.

A comment or two on the stone. True sandstone will last forever so don't worry about longevity -- IF that is sandstone. It looks like a chert to me, and further, it looks as if it may have been shaped by aboriginal hands. In which case, your friend committed a FELONY.

It does look a bit like a blade core, with some flakes removed. IF it's chert, there's no need to stabilize it. IF you think it was taken illegally, you can mail it back to the park with a letter of apology and they will add it to their pile. Perhaps it was picked up outside the park proper?

Unintentional looting was covered recently on one of the podcasts I listen to, here:
http://www.archaeologypodcastnetwork.com/archyfantasies/23

Calm down everybody!
Erosion by the wind charged with sand particulates could give exactly the same kind of pattern, this doesn't look to me as human handcrafting. Furthermore it comes from Utah, which kind of confirm my hypothesis, there a cliffs of that there
Imagine a little boulder coming from that for instance:


Also the rock itself doesn't seem hard enough to have been choosen by any kind of indigenous as a starting point for a tool.

And it's not a chert which is much more siliceous and micro-crystalline:
http://geology.com/rocks/chert.shtml

I think sandstone may have a pretty finite life under a tree...

And I reckon some trees may grow roots into some sandstone.

But I would consult a geologist.
@Alain what say you?

Sorce

Well it will depend on the matrix.
If the matrix is made of silica then the rock might be strong enough. However in the present case the texture of the rock makes me think that you are right: sounds kind of fluffy to me
In this case the rock might ends up decaying and let you with a little sandbox of a pot

 

[sorce]

pot

Hey thanks a ton!

I should go find your thread, but how is that ficus in the pot doing?

Sorce

 

[Mike MoMo]

Thanks Alain your insight is very beneficial. I am sure that the future will unfold in a way which will utilize this sandstone in a way that is great. The few months I have been active in Bonsai I have learned patience, knowledge, and imagination come together to make magic.
For the moment all i can focus on is growing healthy trees. I am thankful for this forum and my local bonsai club, nursery and teacher.

 

[Alain]

Hey thanks a ton!

I should go find your thread, but how is that ficus in the pot doing?

Sorce

Not very well I'm afraid...
My bad actually: I didn't really like the way I potted it so I tried to re-pot it better, not a good idea, I should have let it like that...

Thanks Alain your insight is very beneficial. I am sure that the future will unfold in a way which will utilize this sandstone in a way that is great. The few months I have been active in Bonsai I have learned patience, knowledge, and imagination come together to make magic.
For the moment all i can focus on is growing healthy trees. I am thankful for this forum and my local bonsai club, nursery and teacher.

You are welcome!
Btw: your rock seems a little bit soft but nevertheless, unless you try to attach a tree with really strong roots on top (like a maple for example) it could be fine.
After all if it takes a geological time scale (where 1 million year is just a blink of the eye) to decay in sand we will most certainly but long gone before it's happen (and your tree too unfortunately )

 

[rockm]

Practically, this is a very bad rock to use with a tree. If it is desert sandstone, it ain't gonna last very long in the wet soil of a bonsai pot. All that surface weathering is probably going to wash off in constant dousing with your comparatively acidic water.

Esthetically, there aren't many trees that can be used with such a stone. Maybe a pine, but since it speaks of the desert, deciduous trees are mostly out, unless you have a cottonwood, or live oak handy...

 

[jomawa]

Unintentional looting

"Yeah, occifer, I done stoled it, butt I did'nt reely intend to." Boy, that could sure be used to pile up quite a booty.

About the "rock", I'd try the thumb test on it. Using the force of your thumb, how much sand/grit/debris does indeed rub off. If theres much at all, I wouldn't expect it, with bonsai pot conditions, to hold up for an "extended" length (gee, I wonder how long that is?) of time.

 

[jkl2]

Erosion by the wind charged with sand particulates could give exactly the same kind of pattern,

Absolutely NOT; That stone hasn't been scoured; it has been CHIPPED. Huge difference for anyone who has looked.

 

[jkl2]

Esthetically, there aren't many trees that can be used with such a stone.

Agree, but as a long-time desert dweller and a great fan of both desert environments and geology I disagree with your assessment of the hadriness of sandstone.

 

[jkl2]

Using the force of your thumb, how much sand/grit/debris does indeed rub off. If theres much at all, I wouldn't expect it, with bonsai pot conditions, t

Well, try sticking your thumb out during a hard desert sandstorm sometime.

 

[rockm]

Agree, but as a long-time desert dweller and a great fan of both desert environments and geology I disagree with your assessment of the hadriness of sandstone.

I've lived in the desert too, understand what sandstone is...

 

[Vance Wood]

I seriously doubt that sandstone like this is hard enough to make a usable point. Look at it: the only thing it could be is some sort of scraper, it definitely not hard enough for a killing tool. Rocks being rolled against it in a stream may have caused the fractures you think are tool marks. However; let's accept for a moment that it is a tool??? Now you have an entirely different problem legally. You have not only removed a rock but an artifact as well. That could be a big deal. JMHO

 

[johng]

Absolutely NOT; That stone hasn't been scoured; it has been CHIPPED. Huge difference for anyone who has looked.

Sorry Jim...having some experience here, I think you are wrong...that is just a regular old piece of sandstone...besides, you can't chip sandstone, like you are suggesting. From experience I can tell you that these stones dissolve rapidly when watered daily...it will be a fraction of its former self after just one season of watering...I would never consider using it for anything beyond just a decoration.

 

[jquast]

This post made me think of Sheldon

 

[jkl2]

besides, you can't chip sandstone, like you are suggesting

I NEVER suggested you (or anyone) could chip sandstone. Ever. This looks more like hard-rock (chert, flint, etc.) that you often find embedded in a sandstone strata and which was used by aboriginals for tool making. I have a tad of experience, too. Took 4 years of geology at Arizona State College (now University) back in olden times.

 

[johng]

I NEVER suggested you (or anyone) could chip sandstone. Ever. This looks more like hard-rock (chert, flint, etc.) that you often find embedded in a sandstone strata and which was used by aboriginals for tool making. I have a tad of experience, too. Took 4 years of geology at Arizona State College (now University) back in olden times.

Well...I am not going to argue with you, Jim, but the stone above is very obviously sandstone...not chert, flint or anything else....

 

[Alain]

Absolutely NOT; That stone hasn't been scoured; it has been CHIPPED. Huge difference for anyone who has looked.

Absolutely not also

This is called 'differential erosion' and it comes from the fact that some layer are harder than others.

Btw: I kind of have some experience too with a PhD in Earth Sciences, studying the Amsaga area in the Sahara desert - you could find my papers online, my real name is Alain Potrel - and my more than 20 years of experience in 5 different Universities (and I also lived in Tucson but there I was just giving some tutoring in French, even if my French sucks)

Although I admit that sedimentary rocks aren't my cup of tea, just consolidated mud if you ask me


And also: this is not a chert or a flint or whatever, this is a sandstone sensus lato.