Scots Pine from home depot.

Smoke

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Come on guys, you can tell people the truth that doesn't include a long drive off a short pier. Sometimes a real bad choice can manifest itself in the very material being impossible or not worth the effort. You can't expect a bonsai virgin to know all these things. But the bottom line is this. Trying to encourage someone to stay in bonsai is more valuable to the art than putting a blind fold on them and pointing them on a walk through a mine field.

I don't believe either one of you are so mean spirited as to exploit an opportunity to be hurtful to someone who asked for help. If you think answering one of these questions is below you then don't answer it. I have certainly ignored more than my share of threads in my lifetime; mostly because they didn't interest me.

ahhhh.... Vance I was minding my own business when someone else decided to drag Harry and I into it. Go back and read the first sentence in post 9. I had already read this thread the day before and had nothing nice to say and passed right over it. I stand by my original post saying buying something without a plan in mind is just wasting ones money anyway you cut it. Besides isn't this a discussion forum? Am I not entitled to an opinion even though you may disagree? I think everyone needs to just step back a moment and reflect on this thread and stop beating on those just being honest.....I don't remember there being any rules that I have to stretch the truth just so the forum will like me. We both have been on the internet a looong time and have history together way back to gardenweb being a list server. We both know each others past, don't try to sound too goody goody, we all know otherwise eehh....
 

Smoke

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BTW, Vance, just thinking about it (chuckle)...How many times did Spike Hernandez send you to Disneyland?

I went three times...I know that wasn't a record........
 

Vance Wood

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Hey Vance, when I tell a newbie to buy a Procumbens to start on, is the best advice I can impart to them. Starting with material that has no chance or requires the efforts of a pro. will run them out of the hobby faster than my comments will. Good luck with your new hobby folks. First I will go see the exciting thread "what's your weather like"
then back to the bar !!

Harry

PS:
Never mind what I say, buy what you like and make a beautiful specimen tree out of it three years.

Come on Harry; I've never told anyone to buy a procumbens Juniper. Personally I am not a big fan of Procumbens Junipers they are difficult to work with unless you are familiar with some of the major problems with them, one is keeping them alive. I have never told anyone that they can make a beautiful specimen tree out of a nursery tree in three years either.
 

Vance Wood

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BTW, Vance, just thinking about it (chuckle)...How many times did Spike Hernandez send you to Disneyland?

I went three times...I know that wasn't a record........

None, not once.
 

greerhw

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Come on Harry; I've never told anyone to buy a procumbens Juniper. Personally I am not a big fan of Procumbens Junipers they are difficult to work with unless you are familiar with some of the major problems with them, one is keeping them alive. I have never told anyone that they can make a beautiful specimen tree out of a nursery tree in three years either.

Hey Vance, those of us in the south have very good success with Procumbens, thats why I always recommend them. I can't think of any major problems, just spray for spider mites and enjoy the plant, they are very forgiving and bud back where ever you want them to, the branches are limber and respond well to wiring. As far as the comment " make a tree in three years" had nothing to do with you or your suggerstions, I just wanted to make that clear. That's just the way I felt when I started, boy, did I wake up fast.

Harry
 
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Smoke

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I'm impressed. You are good......

Of course part of that three times was defending Ripsgreentree about some material he "talked" about but never showed any pictures. You know the ASANF club.

I coexed some readers to bonsaiTALK to look at the pics and Spike did not like competition too much, in the forum arena that is.
 

Joedes3

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I want to hear the truth but I think the problem is that the forum, as well as email, is one dimentional. Some us look at your comments and say, "Wow, did I screw up!" Others, may not be ready to hear it, even though they may have screwed up.

Ninety nine percent of you have so much more knowledge than me. I just keep on reading old posts, looking at pictures etc. Personnaly, I need your knowledge, as well as the hands on at the club. That's where they show me that I misunderstood what I was reading.

Again, the forum is one dimenionsal!
 

Smoke

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I want to hear the truth but I think the problem is that the forum, as well as email, is one dimentional. Some us look at your comments and say, "Wow, did I screw up!" Others, may not be ready to hear it, even though they may have screwed up.

Ninety nine percent of you have so much more knowledge than me. I just keep on reading old posts, looking at pictures etc. Personnaly, I need your knowledge, as well as the hands on at the club. That's where they show me that I misunderstood what I was reading.

Again, the forum is one dimenionsal!

You know you are exactly right. In fact without naming a whole bunch of names, what makes it OK for those unmentioned to gang up on my remarks for the remarks that I made to the original poster. If the original poster has a problem with what I say about his tree then he can ask me for clarification. I don't need a buch of busy bodies telling me how I should pass along my expertise.

As far as I'm concerned I have no idea why it is anybodies business how I wish to pass along my expertise.

I think it's time for some to just mind their own business.

Does that make sense? I mean some of these people are guilty of the same thing they are criticising me about...whats up with that.
 

Smoke

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I'm guilty of nothing. I'm perfect. By the way, we missed you today.

Hah! I'm saving my nut for Shohin. Teaching a workshop and still deciding if a workshop is in the cards for the afternoon. Riverside is just so far to go and my schedule in Oct, Nov. and Dec. is packed. Kazari next weekend, family reunion in Santa Paula the next weekend with a stay at the Crown Plaza, Thanksgiving weekend four days at the coast, then the central valley swapmeet and three Christmas parties at the three clubs I belong to in Dec., Boons exibit in Jan. and then Shohin in Feb.

I'm spendin money like a drunken sailor and I just wasn't able to throw a grand at Riverside. Catch me at Sacramento next year, I'll be the guy buyin Kevin Wilson a warm beer!
 
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Vance Wood

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Sometimes you can't win no matter what you try to do. I remember years ago an individual came onto another site, a little earlier than ripsgreentrees, boasting of this that and other things. He and I got into it but in the end he posted pictures from his bonsai business and asked for comments. Personally I thought his material did not measure up to his rhetoric but I was not going to say anything. He kept asking and asking what I thougt, in more of a challenging manner, and I refused to comment because I figured the truth would lead to a flame war. So----I kept my thoughts to may self---- and was still rewarded with a flame war because of my silence. Go figure?

We are in fact intitled to our own opinions but these must be tempered with the realization that not everyone has to agree or may agree with that oppinion. It should be understood that we should attempt to diminish the harm to others that opinion may hold. The simpelist solution I have found is to remain silent, or ask someone if they are willing to hear the truth.
 

Stan Kengai

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ahhhh.... Vance I was minding my own business when someone else decided to drag Harry and I into it. Go back and read the first sentence in post 9. I had already read this thread the day before and had nothing nice to say and passed right over it. I stand by my original post saying buying something without a plan in mind is just wasting ones money anyway you cut it. Besides isn't this a discussion forum? Am I not entitled to an opinion even though you may disagree? I think everyone needs to just step back a moment and reflect on this thread and stop beating on those just being honest.....I don't remember there being any rules that I have to stretch the truth just so the forum will like me. We both have been on the internet a looong time and have history together way back to gardenweb being a list server. We both know each others past, don't try to sound too goody goody, we all know otherwise eehh....

I apologize for dragging you guys into it, that wasn't what I intended. I personally admire those who talk straight and don't sugar-coat things. I think that there are enough "encouraging" posters on here who tip-toe around the subject, and that has to be balanced somewhere with a little reality and frankness. I think one of the problems with our society today is that most people don't want to hear the truth, they only want to hear how good they are. Anyway, that's another thread for the karaoke bar. Sorry, Al and Harry.
 

greerhw

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Don't sweat the small stuff. I would never discourage anyone from starting bonsai as a hobby. I do try and save folks some of the problems I had when I started, it is possible to fast forward in the hobby if you listen to people who have been there. It's only a matter of time before we have a new and cheap soil mix, or does Superthrive work threads.
What is the best fertilizer, now before someone asks that question, Walter Pall goes to his local nursery and buys whatever is on sale, good enought for Walter, good enough for me. Oh, by the way, Superthrive is snake oil.

Harry
 

Joeface

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did some butchering, it was kind of fun being my first plant, hopefully its not going to die
 
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Like what most of the bonsai master said in this forum, learn how to manage pine tree first. How ever for a starter, if u wants to start to bonsai this tree, i think semi cascade is a better option becoz the deeper and larger volume pot use for semi cascade provide a more stable medium for the root.
 
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Fangorn

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Scotts in general do not make good bonsai, I known there are exceptions to every rule, but it takes someone with a lot of experience and skill to develope one and that is usually from a very old yamadori.

Harry
I've seen lots of very nice non-yamadori Scots bonsai around here, and not just at Colin Lewis's or Nick Lenz's place. In fact, I think that they are the best pine to grow in our area
 

greerhw

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I've seen lots of very nice non-yamadori Scots bonsai around here, and not just at Colin Lewis's or Nick Lenz's place. In fact, I think that they are the best pine to grow in our area

I would love to be proven wrong, please post some pictures. I have not seen very many pictures of specimen Scotts.

Harry
 
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Fangorn

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I would love to be proven wrong, please post some pictures. I have not seen very many pictures of specimen Scotts.

Harry

CLICK

Julian Adams has some nice Scots. The pine on page 1 received the Certre Award for the Finest Bonsai & Container at the first National Exhibition. It was dug from a Christmas tree farm in 1976.
I bought a Scots similar to the one on page 3 from Julian a couple of years ago and did some work on it with Colin, but it came out of winter storage weak and faded away (roots). Very Sad
CLICK
 

greerhw

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Thanks for your post, Most don't interest me but the very last one, it has some movement and seems to be ramified very well.

Harry
 
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