Scots pine in the ''sitting on the side of a mountain and growing in the natural pine tree'' style.

Ali Raza

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I've posted this before but here it is with the new season's flush of needles. Now, every effort will be towards fining out the branchlets by lots of needle removal etc. I don't anticipate too much wiring from here although some will probably be necessary.
As you can see, the practice of automatically bringing down branches in pine trees, which we are all taught is a law set in stone, is neither necessary or always desirable if you are after variety in form. This is a much more free kind of shaping were you allow the tree to have more say in the outcome. I think this kind of styling which is not seen very often yet will become common place in the future. The drawback is that the tree will take a lot longer to look like something because we are dealing with each shoot individually rather than one mass and concentrating more on the movement of each shoot than you would normally in your usual bonsai styling. A lot of this movement is made using pruning rather than wiring as it will give you sharp changes of direction. So, it's often 2 steps forward and one back.
It was grow from seed and spent about ten years in the ground. When I think about it, it has more in common with deciduous tree branch training.
The branch on the left coming from the inside of a curve was chosen as the one to keep rather than the one which was on the outside of the same curve. When I told someone I made this ''huge fundamental mistake'' a few years back they thought I was losing it! I think it was the right decision in this case.
The thing so far.......It helps to picture the branches as they will appear after another 5 or 10 seasons when good detail starts to appear.

View attachment 221739

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The back......

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First thing came in my mind is Socotra Dragon Tree Style. Keep it Up.
 

clem

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I think the scots pine is one of the most picturesque large pines around. I've seen many in the flesh as well as lots of beautiful trees in the background in UK TV dramas etc. The variety of form is almost endless. To me they are more interesting than Japanese blacks. But I like all pines. Those that Adair posted are also spectacular. (except maybe the first which is still a baby)

hello, your pines are very nice :) I agree with all you said. I'd say scott pine is maybe a good combination between the nice/subtle/feminine JWP (small sized needles and subtle ramifications) and the masculine JBP (deep bark)

The branches inclination of your 1rst pine is possible, even in a mountain with lot of snow in winter. Yes the variety of forms is endless, but also the bark which can look delicate like JWP and also look very masculine like JBP..

Some pics of scott pines in the French mountains (1000 meters high) ->


pin sylvestre 2018 09 06 030.JPGpin sylvestre 2018 10 03 019.JPGpin sylvestre 2018 10 03 020a.jpgpin sylvestre 2018 10 03 022.JPGpin sylvestre 2018 10 03 027.JPGpin sylvestre 2018 11 14 (14).JPGpin sylvestre 2018 11 14 (28).JPGpin sylvestre 2018 11 14 (60).JPGpin sylvestre 2018 11 14 (68).JPGpin sylvestre 2018 11 14 (73).JPG

more pics here http://www.espritsdegoshin.fr/forum-bonsai/topic.html?id=14684
 

MichaelS

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hello, your pines are very nice :) I agree with all you said. I'd say scott pine is maybe a good combination between the nice/subtle/feminine JWP (small sized needles and subtle ramifications) and the masculine JBP (deep bark)

The branches inclination of your 1rst pine is possible, even in a mountain with lot of snow in winter. Yes the variety of forms is endless, but also the bark which can look delicate like JWP and also look very masculine like JBP..

Some pics of scott pines in the French mountains (1000 meters high) ->


View attachment 231662View attachment 231663View attachment 231664View attachment 231666View attachment 231667View attachment 231668View attachment 231669View attachment 231670View attachment 231671View attachment 231672

more pics here http://www.espritsdegoshin.fr/forum-bonsai/topic.html?id=14684
Thankyou. And here we have more examples of just how superficially most bonsai are styled/shaped/formed (including mine BTW) when compared to the real thing. We are so far removed from them that we cannot even begin to understand what it means or how we should appreciate it. It's understandable of course. There is no blueprint for ''natural'' form. I've said it before. This is why all the so-called experts and master demonstrators are just repeating more of the same, time and time again and not enough people are willing, have the understanding or have the balls to call it out but instead stroke their egos by calling them fantastic artists when in actual fact they are mere entertainers, who all learned from the same songbook and the song is getting tired and worn out. They won't tell you that it takes thirty years to finally figure out that it will take another thirty years on top of that to make a great bonsai. (Unless you're lucky in some way such as have good collected stuff but just how satisfying that is, is debatable) They don't tell you that the most important and meaningful and satisfying thing is you and the tree maturing together. Not twisting something to your will in a couple of hours. If you want to learn to go individual you need to stop going to demos and look at real trees or maybe look at some amatuer works because you will learn more from them.
Oh yes I shouldn't forget....It's my opinion blah bah blah..
 

clem

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That's why i prefer "higher" and "bigger" tree (70cm - 100cm) because tree can be more "special" and "moving" than the classic "perfect" shohin.

On this video Kobayashi himself explains why he decided to change the shape of his juniper, in order to make it more natural : He used to make perfect triangular shape to get prices in exposition (to please judges and to get celebrity) but now he is wellknown and recognized enough to have some freedom to make tree different than before :

 

bonhe

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... the most important and meaningful and satisfying thing is you and the tree maturing together. ..
Well written! I totally agree with you, but I like the above thinking a lot !
Thụ Thoại
 

bonhe

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That's why i prefer "higher" and "bigger" tree (70cm - 100cm) because tree can be more "special" and "moving" than the classic "perfect" shohin.

On this video Kobayashi himself explains why he decided to change the shape of his juniper, in order to make it more natural : He used to make perfect triangular shape to get prices in exposition (to please judges and to get celebrity) but now he is wellknown and recognized enough to have some freedom to make tree different than before :

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing.
Thụ Thoại
 

GeorgeAlexander

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Hey Michael! Here a Scot’s I acquired last summer, but I haven’t really started working on it. It had some health issues that I wanted to give it a chance to recover from first.

This photo is a snap taken from a video, so it isn’t very well presented.

But I thought you might like it. I’m planning more of a “wild and free” styling with it.

View attachment 221873

Where do you acquire most of your trees? Shows and nurseries?
 

Adair M

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Where do you acquire most of your trees? Shows and nurseries?
Yes. And I trade with friends and bonsai club members.

This particular tree I bought from Boon who bought it from one of his students.

I still haven’t styled it, when Boon got it, it had some health issues. We’ve worked thru those, and I thinned buds last winter. I’m going to Boon’s tomorrow, and I’ll see where it is.

Big bonsai shows are good places to get good material.
 

GeorgeAlexander

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Yes. And I trade with friends and bonsai club members.

This particular tree I bought from Boon who bought it from one of his students.

I still haven’t styled it, when Boon got it, it had some health issues. We’ve worked thru those, and I thinned buds last winter. I’m going to Boon’s tomorrow, and I’ll see where it is.

Big bonsai shows are good places to get good material.

Thanks for the reply. I’m in Detroit area. Where are you located. Very hit and miss at our shows.
 

Adair M

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I live in Georgia.

The National Show in Rochester every 2 years has outstanding vendors. Any of the large ABS conventions have good vendors. They just had one recently in Houston. The Carolina Expo in Asheville usually has good vendors. The REBS Show in California does, too.

At the end of June, the National Shohin Show will be in Kannapolis, NC. Just outside Charlotte. I expect there will be good vendors there. Matt Ouwinga will be there selling pots. He has the best available in the US.

I’m not familiar with the Detroit area, but I hear Hidden Gardens has good stuff. They’re in Chicago? I think so.

If you participate in as many shows as you can, meet people, you learn how to build a network. You find out who deals in the best stuff.

For example, you want a Zuisho JWP? Contact Julian Adams. Atlas Cedar? Jim Gremel. Olive? Sam Adina. JBP? Lone Pine nursery or Telperion Farms.

These days I get most of my stuff via private sale from other guys like myself. We trade stuff.

Good luck!
 

Traken

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but I hear Hidden Gardens has good stuff. They’re in Chicago? I think so.

Willowbrook, technically. Western/southwestern Chicago suburbs, just off of I55. They have a really nice selection. One of these days, when I get more experience, (and money, lol) I want to grab one of their collected pines. They always seem to have some really dynamic ones.
 
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