Scots Pine Literati

[Victrinia Ensor]

My dear David,

To put it in the ground for 5-10 years would not assist this tree in the development of bark nearly so much as it would just blow it's form to bits. Since Will's intention is to keep the tree as a bunjin, then keeping it containerized is actually important, because it will restrict vigorours growth. Now the handoff is that the flakey bark you rightly are looking for will take a great deal of time to achieve... but it will achieve it in the correct proportions. The reason why really great bunjins look so old, is because they are. Not from size gaining tricks like being put in the ground, but from simple exsistence in very specific conditions.

If it were mine.... I would indeed stick it in a Dale pot... and let time be my friend. All the while using that time to work on ramification. I would also be willing to bet the tree has more age to it than the photo's are showing. Which is not unusual at all.


Warmest regards,


Victrinia

 

[Victrinia Ensor]

If you do that you lose the literati options now avaliable and in essence, transform this tree into a piece of raw material abandoning any hope of making a small literati out of it, which is what the grower intends for this tree.

Good job. Took me 8 sentances to your one.

 

[HotAction]

Time will tell I suppose. I did notice some bark begining to flake as I looked back at the pic, it may well be older than it appears.

 

[Vance Wood]

Time will tell I suppose. I did notice some bark begining to flake as I looked back at the pic, it may well be older than it appears.

This tree is at least fifteen years old, could be twenty. Scots develop really nice bark in a container but it is fragile and the surface is easily broken off in training. It will come back in a couple of years.

 

[ghues]

Wills Scots Pine

Will - Pot choice, for what its worth, following the chain (and without any influence of other posts), I also liked the last D.C. pot, although the other reddish brown one (second from left) also had some real appeal.

Hot A. – I’m sorry but I agree with the last few posts…..and couldn’t agree more about keeping it in a pot. It’s been my experience that when a tree is planted in the ground, vigorous growth (often desired) allows the tree to retain its more juvenile characteristics/patterns, whereas if you have the time and patience keep it “pot bound”, the tree will acquire the older traits one desires.
Cheers
G.

 

[Anonymous User]

Hot action,

What would you say about this Pinus parviflora Literati by Qingquan Zhao? (Taken from his AoB Gallery)

Does it need time in the ground? Does it need an older looking trunk?

In my development plan, this Scots is far beyond the ground growth stage, I do not want courser foliage, thicker branches, a thicker trunk. You can also assume from its continued survival in such a small pot that the root mass has already been developed and is well suited for life in a container. In the bonsai pot I can now work on finer ramification and detail while keeping the growth in check. This is of the utmost importance when working with a tree that is of Shohin size. The pot is less than four inches wide and was made by Horst to be a container for an accent plant.


Vance,

Yes, as you know, the intent here is to create a small Literati.


Victrinia,

Thanks for the kind words. The tree you wish to see is not quite ready to show yet, soon though. Good eye!


Dale,

Thanks for the pot suggestions, could you make one in a smaller size, such as the Ash and slip lg bunjin.jpg?



Will

 

[HotAction]

What is the size difference between your tree and Qingquan Zhao's tree. I imagine that his is quite a bit larger. Anyways, good luck and prove me wrong. I'll be around to see it in 20 years with any luck.
-David

 

[Victrinia Ensor]

Will...

Since I have been looking at it for a couple days now... I have this urge to take off the apex. Pretty much everything above the third branch. (Excepting the possibility of leaving a nice jin in case it looks good... seeing as one can always remove it later.) But the way the tree moves seems more dynamic without the top. And it also resolves my nagging feeling of too much foliar mass. Hold your hand over the top portion in the image, and see how you respond to the change.

But I like it none the less.

As to the other tree... I'll know it when you show it.


Kindest regards,

Victrinia

 

[Dale Cochoy]

Dale,

Thanks for the pot suggestions, could you make one in a smaller size, such as the Ash and slip lg bunjin.jpg?



Will

Sure Will.... I can do any size bunjin. Smaller is easy.
I just did a very rustic sort-of-literati pot for a BT'er that is outside 21-1/4" X 5-1/2" !! It is a much larger copy of the first pot on the left which was about 10" across.

I'm suprised you picked this pot as it was one of only a few bunjin/literati pots I had made from a very gritty WHITE clay I was trying!! The effect of the VERY thin ash glaze gave it an interesting color.
BTW, that particular pot was sold last year to a customer at the Ashville show ( who posts here) and This year it was planted with a Hinoki and in the Ashville show. Here are a couple pics.

I know you don't want a deep pot but here is also a deeper semicascade version that I made at the same time which better shows the ash/slip combination but with more 'splat'.

Dale 'still waiting to sell Will a pot' Cochoy

 

[Anonymous User]

What is the size difference between your tree and Qingquan Zhao's tree. I imagine that his is quite a bit larger.

In this case, size does not matter at all, only the image presented.


You must of missed my questions about Qingquan Zhao's Literati linked to above, which were:

Does it need time in the ground? Does it need an older looking trunk?

Size would not affect these answers.



Will

 

[HotAction]

Size does matter, if the tree is too small, once you achieve ramification the foliage will be too thick to convey literati. As for the questions you asked, the tree does not need time in the ground, and as the trunk ages further it will only help enhance the image/feeling.

To me, with no point of reference, I would say the Zhao tree is four times the size of the one you posted. Maybe it is a great illusion, or maybe it just is 4 times larger.

-David

 

[Rusty Harris]

Staying on topic

To better keep things on topic, would it not have been more appropriate to have started this thread in the Tree Forum area under pines, or more specifically, in the Styling Forums in the Windswept, slant, literati section. If I have the urge to read threads on literati style, or scots pine, my first move would be to look in those areas. I wonder why the author chose to abandon staying on topic, and post something so specific in the General area? I feel that posting this thought will be labeled as being off topic, yet it is posted under the General Discussion area.So how could it be that my general thought be deemed off topic? Maybe,just maybe,it was posted here because this is sort of the "headlines" area, ya'know, high traffic and all.

 

[Vance Wood]

To better keep things on topic, would it not have been more appropriate to have started this thread in the Tree Forum area under pines, or more specifically, in the Styling Forums in the Windswept, slant, literati section. If I have the urge to read threads on literati style, or scots pine, my first move would be to look in those areas. I wonder why the author chose to abandon staying on topic, and post something so specific in the General area? I feel that posting this thought will be labeled as being off topic, yet it is posted under the General Discussion area.So how could it be that my general thought be deemed off topic? Maybe,just maybe,it was posted here because this is sort of the "headlines" area, ya'know, high traffic and all.

Interesting, almost a month latter for this post. It seems to me from reading the entire post again from top to bottom it never once strayed from the original subject. This also brings up a point: What is considered appropriate material for the general discussion forum?

 

[Rusty Harris]

Interesting, almost a month latter for this post. It seems to me from reading the entire post again from top to bottom it never once strayed from the original subject. This also brings up a point: What is considered appropriate material for the general discussion forum?

Since when is only 15 days almost a month? What is the appropriate time frame in which to exercise the freedom of speech on a public forum?

Exactly,original subject, scots pine literati

 

[Rusty Harris]

Interesting, almost a month latter for this post. It seems to me from reading the entire post again from top to bottom it never once strayed from the original subject. This also brings up a point: What is considered appropriate material for the general discussion forum?

Can you show me one example of where I said this thread strayed of topic, just one? I merely said the topic itself would be better suited in a differant area. Those folks looking for examples of the topic would most likely look in those specific forums, such as the literati, or pines section.Please stay on topic with my original post to this this, which simply, and innocently asked why a literati specific thread is not in the literati section. That is the whole sum of it. As far as appropriate content for the general discussion forum, just look at the 1st page of the list of threads. Very few are specific to specific trees,and none are specific to any specific style.Yet when I click on the literati section, bingo bango, I find things specific to that.

 

[Anonymous User]

Rusty,

This thread is not in any other section because I put it here.

I imagine that if the mod wants this in another section, he'll move it there, either way, who cares?

The actual topic is the tree shown, can we stick to it?

As soon as the ice releases this tree, I'll post some updates.....



Will

 

[milehigh_7]

Will...

Since I have been looking at it for a couple days now... I have this urge to take off the apex. Pretty much everything above the third branch. (Excepting the possibility of leaving a nice jin in case it looks good... seeing as one can always remove it later.) But the way the tree moves seems more dynamic without the top. And it also resolves my nagging feeling of too much foliar mass. Hold your hand over the top portion in the image, and see how you respond to the change.

For what it is worth I am inclined to agree with Victrinia. She may be on to something with that thought.

Love the pots Dale I sort of liked the second from the left.


As a side note I also loved the fact that H.A., although new, was allowed to express some strong thoughts without getting their doors blown off as I have seen happen on bonsai forums. Excellent discussion everyone!

(With the exception of the nit picking at the end *sigh*)

 

[Dwight]

Damn it Vic , I've got fingerprints all over the screen and still can't decide if I agree with you or not. I know the first three branches are great but the apex does seem kinda wonkey. Don't really know why.

Will , do a virt with the top made into a jin so we can see.

 

[Anonymous User]

Will, I like where the tree has gone so far except for the upper branches of the crown. They have a weeping quality instead of a low emergence angle. To me this confuses and muddies the image.

Thanks Chris, I tend to agree on the upper branches, which were bent to lower the height for now, while maintaining the possibility for future back budding. Hopefully I will be able to reduce the length of them this year and wire them to protray the same "flavor" as the rest of the tree.




Will

 

[Anonymous User]

This literati was awarded an Outstanding Achievement Award today at the Michigan All State Show.

I'll try and post an updated picture soon. (It is still in the same pot.)