Scotts pine (bunjin/slant) from a young yamadori (approx. 15 YO

[clem]

hello, here is a scotts pine i collected in october 2017 : it was growing on the edge of a large river.
The tree in October of 2017 ->


May 2018 ->


June 2019 ->

A virtual of a project ->



I repotted it last week because it had some fungus symptoms (brown needles) ->


The rootball had no root rot but no mycorhize ->


The rootball ->

I tried to improve the position of roots (but i'm not sure i'll keep all of them later) ->


The tree after repotting ->
I keep the sacrifice branch to make the trunk bigger

A virtual without the sacrifice branch ->

 

[clem]

A virtual without the sacrifice branch ->

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Mon dieu! That's a tiny amount of needles left!
Are you doing anything to prevent those branches from dying?
I'm years from styling my trees like this, but I'd like to know what happens when a tree is plucked like this.

 

[River's Edge]

Mon dieu! That's a tiny amount of needles left!
Are you doing anything to prevent those branches from dying?
I'm years from styling my trees like this, but I'd like to know what happens when a tree is plucked like this.

Note he said a virtual! Sacrifice branch still remains.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Note he said a virtual! Sacrifice branch still remains.

Oh yes, I did note that! But I'm wondering if the strong branch wouldn't draw so much that the rest would succumb.
I'm wondering even if the plucked branches will even survive. I know the bunjin style is known for the sparse foliage, I just want to know how to be able to do something similar in the future without all of my branches dying.
Honestly, I've been playing with pines for a couple of years now and I'm nowhere near this level. I have had some of those weaker branches die on me without a clear reason. I want to prevent that in the future when there's actually something at stake.

 

[River's Edge]

Oh yes, I did note that! But I'm wondering if the strong branch wouldn't draw so much that the rest would succumb.
I'm wondering even if the plucked branches will even survive. I know the bunjin style is known for the sparse foliage, I just want to know how to be able to do something similar in the future without all of my branches dying.
Honestly, I've been playing with pines for a couple of years now and I'm nowhere near this level. I have had some of those weaker branches die on me without a clear reason. I want to prevent that in the future when there's actually something at stake.

The stronger branches are retained to provide sufficient photosynthesis to keep the overall healthy as you suspect! The key is to balance rather than tip over the edge and kill a branch! Most professionals remove foliage in stages rather than the sparse representation in the virtual. Weakening the tree so much simply sets it back or kills the branch when done to the extreme. This is often a problem with " Demo's". A combination of what the professional can get away with and the degree of after care provided!
Trees that are pruned excessively, thinned excessively and the outcome is positive are those maintained in optimum health and provided with exceptional aftercare.
From a horticultural point of view managing the transition over gradual stages is best for most Bonsai practitioners.
Branches dying are normal a result of root issues, watering issues, substrate issues. However removing too many needles can easily kill a branch, particularly if it is not a vigorous healthy tree with sufficient time in the growing season to recover.

 

[clem]

Mon dieu! That's a tiny amount of needles left!
Are you doing anything to prevent those branches from dying?
I'm years from styling my trees like this, but I'd like to know what happens when a tree is plucked like this.

I'm surprised of your reaction about needles removal, because i often see much more needles removal in demos in Europe on scott pines, much older than mine, and there is no problem after ->
look on this video ->

Anyway, i didn't pluck needles on this pine, except the needles going down last year (to keep only needles going up on the branches). In the end of winter, the lowest branch lost 10% of its needles (fungus problems because of too much water i guess), that's why i repotted it a week ago to check the roots and add a more draining substrate (pumice + pouzzolane + kiryu). The candles still grow on this tree and i won't pinch them. If this tree survive, (i hope so) there will be more needles everywhere. I'm an amateur, i learn from my mistakes. This year i'll water this tree less frequently than previous year and I'll spray bacillus subtilis on the foliage to help prevent fungus attack. I love scotts pine but i have difficulties with acclimatation from the south (moutains) and also cultivation. I collect only young pines to learn and to "fix" the problems. As long as i have problems with my pines (brown needles) i will not collect older trees.

 

[clem]

Oh yes, I did note that! But I'm wondering if the strong branch wouldn't draw so much that the rest would succumb.
I'm wondering even if the plucked branches will even survive. I know the bunjin style is known for the sparse foliage, I just want to know how to be able to do something similar in the future without all of my branches dying.
Honestly, I've been playing with pines for a couple of years now and I'm nowhere near this level. I have had some of those weaker branches die on me without a clear reason. I want to prevent that in the future when there's actually something at stake.

In my experience, the very thin & weak branches can die because the tree abandons them.
If you find an old tree with an important & strong apex (lot of needles and big buds) and weak branches on the bottom (usefull to build the tree later), with small needles and small buds, don't cut the crown in 1 time otherwise your pine will probably die (sad personnal experience). Cut the apex in stages (remove 30% of the crown for example) and let the lower branches recieve sun : this way, the lower branches will survive and get stronger year after year (as the crown gets weaker).
You can also wire or put a guy wire on the lower and weaker branches to bring them up to catch more sun and this way the sapp (which go up) will go inside them in a bigger amount

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Good advice, thanks!
In the video they talk a bit too fast for my level of French, but I understood most of it.
I have one very strong scots pine that I'm going to style again this fall.
I think I'll leave 10-15 pairs of needles on every branch. See how that works.

 

[clem]

Ok, the important thing before styling or wiring or needle removing is to have a strong tree, and strong buds on the branches you need to keep alive.
The number of needles on those branches is important too, for photosynthesis, but you can remove approx. 70% of the needles on strong branches with no issue as long as there is still big buds to make sapp come in the branch.
If you're not sure of your technik on your scotts pine, before doing anything, you can open a topic to get advise from experienced people here

 

[hemi71cuda]

Regarding your lack of mycorrhizae, I recently heard Ryan Neil say he uses Dr. Earth “Life” fertilizer as an inoculant when he feels he needs to repopulate the microbiome in a container. Sounded like just one application before returning to his normal fertilizer which I assume is still biogold.
Or if you have other Scots Pines with healthy mycorrhizae you could use some of that.

I like where you’re going with the virtuals.

 

[clem]

Regarding your lack of mycorrhizae, I recently heard Ryan Neil say he uses Dr. Earth “Life” fertilizer as an inoculant when he feels he needs to repopulate the microbiome in a container. Sounded like just one application before returning to his normal fertilizer which I assume is still biogold.
Or if you have other Scots Pines with healthy mycorrhizae you could use some of that.

thanks, i used the product "Bioxim" : http://hiryuen.com/negozio/en/fertilizers/232-antagonist.html
COMPOSITION:
Microorganisms PGPR 10 ( raised to the tenth ) cfu/100g. Organic matrix: Simple non-composted fertilizer plant 10%, mycorrhizae ( Glomus spp endomycorrhizae ) ... 5cfu/100g , bacteria in the rhizosphere ( Streptomyces spp, Pseudomonas spp , Bacillus spp ) ... 10 to the tenth cfu/100g, Tricoderma ( Trichoderma harzianum, T. viride )... 10 to the fifth cfu/100g .

I like where you’re going with the virtuals.

Not sure, maybe a wider silhouette in the future ->

 

[Bnana]

Inoculating with mycorrhizae is a waste of money. The mycorrhizae in this "Bioxim" is a Glomus species, an AMF, while Pines have ecotmycorrhizae. Glomus is useless for it.
Unless you live on an island in the middle of the ocean (without pines), the spores of the mycorrhizea will arrive anyway. If you have a bit of soil from a place with pines there are enormous amounts of spores and hyphae but the'll also arrive through the air, that's what mushrooms are for.

What determines how well these mycorhiza do their job depends on the environmental conditions, those do not change when you inoculate.
So yes microorganisms in the soil are very important but adding something like this is useless.

It is really hard to keep your plants from getting mycorrhizae. You need filtered air, autoclaved soil, etc. and even than it sometimes shows up (I've tried during my PhD).

 

[clem]

Inoculating with mycorrhizae is a waste of money. The mycorrhizae in this "Bioxim" is a Glomus species, an AMF, while Pines have ecotmycorrhizae. Glomus is useless for it.
Unless you live on an island in the middle of the ocean (without pines), the spores of the mycorrhizea will arrive anyway. If you have a bit of soil from a place with pines there are enormous amounts of spores and hyphae but the'll also arrive through the air, that's what mushrooms are for.

What determines how well these mycorhiza do their job depends on the environmental conditions, those do not change when you inoculate.
So yes microorganisms in the soil are very important but adding something like this is useless.

It is really hard to keep your plants from getting mycorrhizae. You need filtered air, autoclaved soil, etc. and even than it sometimes shows up (I've tried during my PhD).

Interesting, thanks.
what do you think of the use of bacteria in the soil (Streptomyces spp, Pseudomonas spp , Bacillus spp ) to help prevent the developement of pathogen like 'phytophthora" ?
And i also spray "bacilus subtilis QST 713" on the foliage ? Usefull ? Useless ?
thanks

 

[Bnana]

Those soil bacteria are there already. Inoculation is useless. Improving conditions is the way to go.

Leaf sprays with QST 713 are different. You don't use that as inoculum but swamp a plant with bacteria to outcompete fungi. This won't last but it gives a temporary effect.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Inoculating with mycorrhizae is a waste of money. The mycorrhizae in this "Bioxim" is a Glomus species, an AMF, while Pines have ecotmycorrhizae. Glomus is useless for it.
Unless you live on an island in the middle of the ocean (without pines), the spores of the mycorrhizea will arrive anyway. If you have a bit of soil from a place with pines there are enormous amounts of spores and hyphae but the'll also arrive through the air, that's what mushrooms are for.

What determines how well these mycorhiza do their job depends on the environmental conditions, those do not change when you inoculate.
So yes microorganisms in the soil are very important but adding something like this is useless.

It is really hard to keep your plants from getting mycorrhizae. You need filtered air, autoclaved soil, etc. and even than it sometimes shows up (I've tried during my PhD).

Does that mean that Great White is also useless? I think I have some from when it didn't do anything the last time.
Maybe I could try it again and see but toss it if it didn't do anything this time either.

 

[Bnana]

I guess you don't mean the shark.
I had to look it up but unless you have sterilised everything these inocula are nonsense. And a gram of garden soil does the job just as well in that case.

 

[GGB]

love that pine. very cool trunk and branches.

As a side note I threw away my myco innoculant this spring. Seems to me like they wont grow in my pots if the soil is too wet

 

[GGB]

wont grow = visible growth

 

[Mike Corazzi]

I guess you don't mean the shark.
I had to look it up but unless you have sterilised everything these inocula are nonsense. And a gram of garden soil does the job just as well in that case.

Approximately ....none.. of my trees develop it.
I have one pine from a bonsai nursery that has some.
Maybe a pinch from that one?
Or a squooshed mushroom or toadstool?

The only mychorrizae I get is my username.