Seedlings + pond basket = roots

bonsaidave

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I collected a bunch of seedlings from my yard last spring. I placed them in pond baskets chopped down to about 3 or 4 inches tall. Used my standard bonsai soil mix. The root results were pretty decent.

IMG_20180131_132247-1200x1600.jpg

Out of this I got 4 root cuttings and potted up all 5 trees into their own 5 inch plastic containers.

These are many years from being bonsai but one must start somewhere. What fun ?

Happy repotting season you Nuts!

Notes: I probably won't cut down the pond baskets that low next time.
Pond baskets were $1.50 at Home Depot.
 

cmeg1

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They do work great for potting soil if your looking to increase drainage and air prune.I used them in the past.
As they get bigger I found I wanted a neater solution to grow out trees and discovered bulb pans.When the trees get big they really need some moisture,even in potting soil.
FoodServiceWarehouse is the best place to get colanders,but their site is under construction.Tigerchef has 8” colanders for .99 cent but shipping is high,unless buying a lot.
Here is link for bulb pans and carry totes that I currently use
http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/kord-traditional-bulb-pans/s
http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/round-pot-carrying-trays/
****Can scroll through selection sizes****
I used colanders for zelkova in the past.I have moved on to the bulb pans since I am trying to grow some bigger trunks......still going to do some small zelkova this spring!
Considering just growing trees in a potting soil blend with added perlite in bulb pans for many years and let them develop,because the akadama was a challenge to keep moist while at work without covering in wet T-shirt’s or something.
 

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Rodrigo

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They do work great for potting soil if your looking to increase drainage and air prune.I used them in the past.
As they get bigger I found I wanted a neater solution to grow out trees and discovered bulb pans.When the trees get big they really need some moisture,even in potting soil.
FoodServiceWarehouse is the best place to get colanders,but their site is under construction.Tigerchef has 8” colanders for .99 cent but shipping is high,unless buying a lot.
Here is link for bulb pans and carry totes that I currently use
http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/kord-traditional-bulb-pans/s
http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/round-pot-carrying-trays/
****Can scroll through selection sizes****
I used colanders for zelkova in the past.I have moved on to the bulb pans since I am trying to grow some bigger trunks......still going to do some small zelkova this spring!
Considering just growing trees in a potting soil blend with added perlite in bulb pans for many years and let them develop,because the akadama was a challenge to keep moist while at work without covering in wet T-shirt’s or something.
I've been looking for smaller pond baskets for my re-potting in the next couple of weeks but can only seem to find the 10" home depot ones and they're too big.. I'd be interested in trying the bulb pans since I think I can find those easier. Would you mind clarifying why you think those are better than pond baskets? Was it just the moisture factor? I'm mostly re-potting smaller pre bonsai at the moment so I don't have to worry about that too much.

Thanks
 

Rodrigo

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I collected a bunch of seedlings from my yard last spring. I placed them in pond baskets chopped down to about 3 or 4 inches tall. Used my standard bonsai soil mix. The root results were pretty decent.

View attachment 176048

Out of this I got 4 root cuttings and potted up all 5 trees into their own 5 inch plastic containers.

These are many years from being bonsai but one must start somewhere. What fun ?

Happy repotting season you Nuts!

Notes: I probably won't cut down the pond baskets that low next time.
Pond baskets were $1.50 at Home Depot.
Why do you think you won't cut them down next time? As I mentioned above, I need smaller ones but in perimeter of the top (like a 6"x6" or 8"x8"), the height isn't so much the problem but I thought it was a good idea. Any reason why it wasn't?
 

sparklemotion

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I've been looking for smaller pond baskets for my re-potting in the next couple of weeks but can only seem to find the 10" home depot ones and they're too big..

Look at hydroponics suppliers for net pots. Square ones are harder to find but there are lots of sizes of round ones. Example.
 

bonsaidave

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I won't cut them down as low so I can get more root growth and more top growth. I think I missed out on some of both because my short 10" basket was quite full of roots.
 

Rodrigo

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Look at hydroponics suppliers for net pots. Square ones are harder to find but there are lots of sizes of round ones. Example.
Oh perfect! Thank you so much. I don't mind the shape so much as the size due to space limitations at the moment so circular ones are ok.

I won't cut them down as low so I can get more root growth and more top growth. I think I missed out on some of both because my short 10" basket was quite full of roots.
That makes sense. So next time you would be leaving the baskets full size and but waiting a bit longer to re-pot so the roots can fill out the basket?
 

cmeg1

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I've been looking for smaller pond baskets for my re-potting in the next couple of weeks but can only seem to find the 10" home depot ones and they're too big.. I'd be interested in trying the bulb pans since I think I can find those easier. Would you mind clarifying why you think those are better than pond baskets? Was it just the moisture factor? I'm mostly re-potting smaller pre bonsai at the moment so I don't have to worry about that too much.

Thanks
Yes,I used the colanders actually with upside down clay saucers in them to promote a flat nebari and all horizontal roots.I prefer bulb pans now because they are low and stable pots and flat also.
I think now for growing out purposes it is simply more professional looking to line the bulb pans on the ground on a strip of landscape fabric with a means to stake them up with perhaps a garden pole ran overhead.The pots are flat bottomed and will stand much better while you let the trees rocket away to attain girth and vigor.
That is just me though......I originally used the colanders because I was overly concerned with potting soil drainage.
Now I have concluded that a good potting soil mixed perhaps 50/50 with some grade4 perlite is fine in the bulb pans for quickly developing large trees from saplings.It is good to get a intact rootball anyway before one would consider maybe putting a few in the ground.
Some of mine will go in ground next autumn,but many will stay in the pans or be taken out and be sunk into a deep bed of peat moss in ground for winter storage and then put back into pots after a good root pruning in spring.
 

Rodrigo

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Thank you for the explanation. I think you're right in that they look more professional, I may give them a try with a few trees. Did you notice any difference in root growth between a basket and the bulb pots? I ask because the main reason I use pond baskets is for air pruning but if it doesn't make a significant difference then it may not be worth all the trouble.

I don't have any room to put them in the ground yet so I', looking for the best alternative for good, fast growth. I know training boxes are ideal but I don't have enough room to put large boxes with the amount of trees I have.. for now!
 

cmeg1

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Thank you for the explanation. I think you're right in that they look more professional, I may give them a try with a few trees. Did you notice any difference in root growth between a basket and the bulb pots? I ask because the main reason I use pond baskets is for air pruning but if it doesn't make a significant difference then it may not be worth all the trouble.

I don't have any room to put them in the ground yet so I', looking for the best alternative for good, fast growth. I know training boxes are ideal but I don't have enough room to put large boxes with the amount of trees I have.. for now!
For growing deciduous trees out you are pruning roots pretty hard every spring and combing them out straight and flat,probably bare rooting too.I found the colanders to essentially be somewhat of a wasted effort really.For what I was wanting to achieve anyway.
Now they did make a nice root ball of fine branching....But I now rather concentrate on Flat root pad where all energy in roots are going to the outward,so I may put upside down terra-cotta saucers in the bottoms of my bulb pans.
So to answer your question.......the rooting was very good in a colander,but most was trimmed off in spring in favor of a flat root pad.
I think it better to have a flat surface for all roots to go out and spread the nebari.
 

Rodrigo

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For growing deciduous trees out you are pruning roots pretty hard every spring and combing them out straight and flat,probably bare rooting too.I found the colanders to essentially be somewhat of a wasted effort really.For what I was wanting to achieve anyway.
Now they did make a nice root ball of fine branching....But I now rather concentrate on Flat root pad where all energy in roots are going to the outward,so I may put upside down terra-cotta saucers in the bottoms of my bulb pans.
So to answer your question.......the rooting was very good in a colander,but most was trimmed off in spring in favor of a flat root pad.
I think it better to have a flat surface for all roots to go out and spread the nebari.
I just ordered a few of the bulb pots to try out, thanks for the tip! When putting the saucers at the bottom, do you put them literally on the bottom of the pot and then the tree right on top of that, and then the soil? Or do you put a layer of soil down first and then the saucer etc.?
 

cmeg1

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I just ordered a few of the bulb pots to try out, thanks for the tip! When putting the saucers at the bottom, do you put them literally on the bottom of the pot and then the tree right on top of that, and then the soil? Or do you put a layer of soil down first and then the saucer etc.?
The saucer goes upside down on the bottom directly....make it slightly smaller than pot so soil can fall around it and hold it secure......then a little soil on top of saucer....then tree on top of saucer with soil falling around saucer to hold snug.
Roots will grow across top of saucer and then down to the deeper edges around saucer to the bottom of the pot.
Depending on ones needs and size of bulb pan,you may substitute an upside down clay pot for the upside down saucer.Depends on size of grow pot.
 

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Rodrigo

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The saucer goes upside down on the bottom directly....make it slightly smaller than pot so soil can fall around it and hold it secure......then a little soil on top of saucer....then tree on top of saucer with soil falling around saucer to hold snug.
Roots will grow across top of saucer and then down to the deeper edges around saucer to the bottom of the pot.
Depending on ones needs and size of bulb pan,you may substitute an upside down clay pot for the upside down saucer.Depends on size of grow pot.
Thanks for all your help! If the saucer is at the bottom and tree on top of that, do you backfill all the way to the top of the pot though? Wouldn't the tree get buried a bit too deep? The pot may be shallow enough that it's not an issue but since I've never seen them in person I'm not too sure.
 

cmeg1

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Thanks for all your help! If the saucer is at the bottom and tree on top of that, do you backfill all the way to the top of the pot though? Wouldn't the tree get buried a bit too deep? The pot may be shallow enough that it's not an issue but since I've never seen them in person I'm not too sure.
Your welcome,no better way to get ready for Spring than to talk bonsai.
It’s good to keep surface roots covered in the early stages and they thicken.
It is also good to have a rim around the top edge of your pot exposed to make watering easier.Because if you fill completely to the rim the water just runs out of the top too easy and watering becomes a hassle.
 
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John P.

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Like Cmeg1, I’ve done similar things with air layers, inverted saucers in bulb pans, etc. He’s given me some really useful ideas! Instead of wiring the roots to the saucer, though, I drilled a hole in the center of the saucer and another under the trunk, and fastened the saucer to the trunk with a stainless steel screw.

97E043BB-CEC9-4EC9-A7F3-05E103A9912F.jpeg24ECC34A-9A10-4E31-8C39-75138666E51B.jpeg8D49AB72-64E7-4022-B5EB-A31565BD4E1F.jpeg

More info and pictures: Frankenbonsai

From before I repotted:
 

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Rodrigo

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Like Cmeg1, I’ve done similar things with air layers, inverted saucers in bulb pans, etc. He’s given me some really useful ideas! Instead of wiring the roots to the saucer, though, I drilled a hole in the center of the saucer and another under the trunk, and fastened the saucer to the trunk with a stainless steel screw.

View attachment 178865View attachment 178866View attachment 178867

More info and pictures: Frankenbonsai

From before I repotted:
I saw someone in another thread mention the hose and clamp method to reduce swelling at the cut site, is what that is? Those roots are looking great! What kind of tree is that?
 
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