Seedlings Wilt When Collected

[TN_Jim]

my approach would be this time of year would be

minimal to zero root disturbance

put in 1-3 gallon nursery pot with relatively well detaining potting medium like straight soil conditioner or add a little bit of something with some weight like compost

put it in partial shade, like ~4 hrs direct sun

if wilting cut all leaves in half with sterilized scissors

don’t let soil surface go prolonged without water

fertilize only when you see new growth. once new leaves begin to harden or develop mature cuticle some wire could be applied


to me, the most important of all (this time of year) is minimal interference with any fine feeder roots. besides, they’re babies and any root work can be done over the many years to come -first just get them to breathe and latch Gaia’s breast

 

[Pitoon]

Keep the ones you pulled in shade until they recover.

 

[JackHammer]

Even in full shade? Or do you recommend direct sun and no cover?

What is the goal? If their is full shade, are you trying to capture heat? Keep in moisture? I am not sure you really need either right now.

I have had best luck with my starts in mostly shade with about 2 hours of direct sun. I do have a greenhouse but things can wilt and over heat.

 

[uk_chris]

View attachment 381196
The one in the larger chamber is the one I'm talking about. I had to lean it sideways to accommodate the taproot but before I plucked it, the leaves were basically sticking upwards at 45 degree angles. The stem looks fine but the leaves went all floppy. The others are looking much better after soaking up some water - the center one had been floppy at the stem.

It could be that the stiffness of the tap root has caused it to 'bounce' back up after you've pushed it down in to the soil and thus opened up large air gaps that have allowed the roots to dry out. Nothing wrong with the tap root being sideways but it does make it trickier to stay in place in such shallow soil, I'd pot in to a deeper pot personally and if there's sufficient lateral roots also chop the tap root.

 

[QuantumSparky]

It could be that the stiffness of the tap root has caused it to 'bounce' back up after you've pushed it down in to the soil and thus opened up large air gaps that have allowed the roots to dry out. Nothing wrong with the tap root being sideways but it does make it trickier to stay in place in such shallow soil, I'd pot in to a deeper pot personally and if there's sufficient lateral roots also chop the tap root.

Good insight, I think I subconsciously pot the seedlings in a way that the taproot isn't exerting any force upwards, and I don't smush the soil down excessively but I do tap it down and make sure it's free of air pockets.

My main question at this point is to chop or not to chop (the taproot). On one hand, the plant is already shocked from being dug up and having the smallest roots potentially damaged so further chopping might be too much. On the other hand, I've heard seedlings take well to taproot chopping compared to mature trees. It seems like your advice might be the best middle ground, and I should just base the decision on the amount of lateral roots.

The only problem is that I don't know what "sufficient lateral/feeder roots" looks like I think I'll make a second post later today about that - I just collected a (Juniper?) seedling that looks like a good candidate for a photo shoot and maybe you/others could give an opinion on whether or not it has 'enough' roots.

Collecting seedlings is becoming an addiction at this point, I can't keep my eyes off the ground anymore

 

[uk_chris]

My main question at this point is to chop or not to chop (the taproot).

The only problem is that I don't know what "sufficient lateral/feeder roots" looks like

That's the magic question, you know if there are sufficient when it survives. I guess I'd want to retain about 50% of the fine roots but that's just a feeling and I can't say I've ever done any experiments to arrive at that number, it's more a feel for how many I feel I often lose when potting on congested seedlings. Also you've got to take in to account the proportion of roots that it lost when you collected it.

I would say leave this one now to recover and consider chopping the tap roots on future collections. There shouldn't be any shortage of seedlings to experiment on.

What are your intentions for the sycamore seedlings? They're not a particularly good species for bonsai and if you really want to play with them why not collect whips that already have some girth rather than go to the effort of looking after them yourself? They grow like weeds near any mature sycamore so should be plenty of older ones too choose from so no issue of they don't survive.

 

[QuantumSparky]

That's the magic question, you know if there are sufficient when it survives. I guess I'd want to retain about 50% of the fine roots but that's just a feeling and I can't say I've ever done any experiments to arrive at that number, it's more a feel for how many I feel I often lose when potting on congested seedlings. Also you've got to take in to account the proportion of roots that it lost when you collected it.

I would say leave this one now to recover and consider chopping the tap roots on future collections. There shouldn't be any shortage of seedlings to experiment on.

What are your intentions for the sycamore seedlings? They're not a particularly good species for bonsai and if you really want to play with them why not collect whips that already have some girth rather than go to the effort of looking after them yourself? They grow like weeds near any mature sycamore so should be plenty of older ones too choose from so no issue of they don't survive.

The Sycamore are mainly for experimentation - I have zero gardening experience before jumping into this hobby so I'm starting from square one on all aspects. So it'll be good for me to practice keeping seedlings alive with trash trees so that when I collect species for proper bonsai, I'll have a better success rate (hopefully). It also gives me something to do while I wait for my Japanese maple, Korean hornbeam, and other seeds to finish stratification/germinating.

I have a trashy juniper I collected from the side of the road which I'm struggling to keep healthy but that's the only project tree I currently own. I definitely jumped the gun on cutting taproot/pruning/wiring all at once so I'm giving it all the care I possibly can. At least now I can spend some more time practicing with these seedlings

 

[uk_chris]

The Sycamore are mainly for experimentation - I have zero gardening experience before jumping into this hobby so I'm starting from square one on all aspects. So it'll be good for me to practice keeping seedlings alive with trash trees so that when I collect species for proper bonsai, I'll have a better success rate (hopefully). It also gives me something to do while I wait for my Japanese maple, Korean hornbeam, and other seeds to finish stratification/germinating.

I have a trashy juniper I collected from the side of the road which I'm struggling to keep healthy but that's the only project tree I currently own. I definitely jumped the gun on cutting taproot/pruning/wiring all at once so I'm giving it all the care I possibly can. At least now I can spend some more time practicing with these seedlings

Good for you Often advice to beginners is not to bother with seeds but I think it's the best time to be planting seeds, they can grow with you and there's nothing stopping you investing in cheap nursery material at the same time so you have something bigger to try different techniques on.

Welcome to horticulture, I find growing from seed the most enjoyable part of being a gardener.

 

[leatherback]

Use a bigger container. Plant them properly. Not only is it awkward the way it is planted now, at also gives way too much room for movement putting it like this. And every movemet hurts the roots.

If you think you got most of the roots, I think you forego the fact that the roots have tiny hairs, really, cell-extensions. These will all be damaged when you move a plant around. That needs to be fixed.

My approach would be, 1/8 gallon pots half fill with substrate. Take the seedlings, clip the roots back to 2 inches, assuming there are some side-roots in that area, place in the pot and backfill the pot so the substrate is at the same level with the original substrate height. Do not tamp, just water in. Place in a shady spot with non wind and put some form of cover over it so the air stays humid. The latter you remove after a week.

 

[QuantumSparky]

Use a bigger container. Plant them properly. Not only is it awkward the way it is planted now, at also gives way too much room for movement putting it like this. And every movemet hurts the roots.

If you think you got most of the roots, I think you forego the fact that the roots have tiny hairs, really, cell-extensions. These will all be damaged when you move a plant around. That needs to be fixed.

My approach would be, 1/8 gallon pots half fill with substrate. Take the seedlings, clip the roots back to 2 inches, assuming there are some side-roots in that area, place in the pot and backfill the pot so the substrate is at the same level with the original substrate height. Do not tamp, just water in. Place in a shady spot with non wind and put some form of cover over it so the air stays humid. The latter you remove after a week.

Thanks! That awkward one was only like that for an hour as I drove home. I immediately put it in a bigger pot and got it standing straight. They're doing alright except the big guy still has wilted leaves. I think I'll have to protect them from the wind more like you said. I check water and mist them daily but perhaps that one just has so much leaf surface area that it's losing water faster than it takes it in.