Seek advice on collecting my first 'Yamadori' Native hawthorn

[Cypress]

Hey all! So i know a spot nearby with a number of wild hawthorns growing and would like to collect one or two. basically what I want to know is should i dig a trench around the ones I'm going to collect this fall and then actually collect them next spring?
On that NOTE!!! What does digging a trench even do? sever lateral roots? Is this even necessary? I've just heard of other people doing this.

In the same area there are tons of American hornbeam (musclewood, ironwood, blue-beech) and would like to collect one of thee to.

SO BASICALLY, to trench this fall, or to just collect them in the spring, (or collect now? would that be a bad idea?) And any other advice on when exactly to collect or anything else would be great!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Y'all

 

[Zach Smith]

Hey all! So i know a spot nearby with a number of wild hawthorns growing and would like to collect one or two. basically what I want to know is should i dig a trench around the ones I'm going to collect this fall and then actually collect them next spring?
On that NOTE!!! What does digging a trench even do? sever lateral roots? Is this even necessary? I've just heard of other people doing this.

In the same area there are tons of American hornbeam (musclewood, ironwood, blue-beech) and would like to collect one of thee to.

SO BASICALLY, to trench this fall, or to just collect them in the spring, (or collect now? would that be a bad idea?) And any other advice on when exactly to collect or anything else would be great!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Y'all

Collect in late winter. Both species are easy to collect. You should have a 90% survival rate with hawthorn and 80-90% with hornbeam. Hawthorn is a denser wood than hornbeam, and if you're collecting larger specimens I'd recommend using a cordless reciprocating saw unless the soil is rocky.

Trenching is a way to sever lateral roots and allow them to sprout the feeder roots up close to the trunk that you'll need when the tree goes into a smaller container. The trick is, you have to be able to maintain moisture in the root zone when you sever those roots, otherwise they'll dry out and die.

Good luck!

Zach

 

[Cypress]

Ahhhh ok, thanks for clearing up trenching for me. Think I might just skip that step then since these trees aren't in a spot I could get to on a regular basis. But the hawthorns I'm looking at are right off of a road in a depression which would probably gather water so I feel like that would keep them moist through the winter. So I won't rule it out completely yet.

And by late winter... Does march sound right for Upstate NY?

-Mike

 

[Zach Smith]

Ahhhh ok, thanks for clearing up trenching for me. Think I might just skip that step then since these trees aren't in a spot I could get to on a regular basis. But the hawthorns I'm looking at are right off of a road in a depression which would probably gather water so I feel like that would keep them moist through the winter. So I won't rule it out completely yet.

And by late winter... Does march sound right for Upstate NY?

-Mike

I'm in Louisiana, so don't really know how the seasons run where you are. I imagine you'll have to contend with frozen soil, but whenever it starts to thaw and before buds start showing, take both hawthorn and hornbeam. Hornbeam especially does not like to be collected after budburst.

Zach

 

[Cypress]

Hahaha, yerrrp think it's a bit warmer down there that time of year. Thanks for the input, really helpful!

 

[brewmeister83]

And by late winter... Does march sound right for Upstate NY?

-Mike

Just thought I'd pass on some info I learned the hard way...

In my experience, hawthorn is one of the trees that leafs out last up here. This means you have to be careful and not collect too early (especially if you're not trenching them) otherwise you'll be cutting them out of the ground before there's enough sap up in the tree to survive.

For example, I collected two in early to mid march without trenching, neither one made it. Collected two more from the same location in mid April, the both recovered and grew like gangbusters this year. Since you live a bit more north than me, this means you might want to hold off collecting till the later half of April.

 

[Cypress]

Just thought I'd pass on some info I learned the hard way...

In my experience, hawthorn is one of the trees that leafs out last up here. This means you have to be careful and not collect too early (especially if you're not trenching them) otherwise you'll be cutting them out of the ground before there's enough sap up in the tree to survive.

For example, I collected two in early to mid march without trenching, neither one made it. Collected two more from the same location in mid April, the both recovered and grew like gangbusters this year. Since you live a bit more north than me, this means you might want to hold off collecting till the later half of April.

AYE! Fellow northerner thank you for the heads up, you probably saved me a huge headache!

 

[brewmeister83]

AYE! Fellow northerner thank you for the heads up, you probably saved me a huge headache!

No Problem, always glad to help if I can.

Oh, and btw hawthorns growing in fairly open ground usually have big lateral roots with little feeder root close to the trunk, so take a LOT more root than you think you need - e.g. the two that made it are both about 2 in. trunks in collection boxes measuring 14x16 in. by about 6 in. deep.

 

[Cypress]

No Problem, always glad to help if I can.

Oh, and btw hawthorns growing in fairly open ground usually have big lateral roots with little feeder root close to the trunk, so take a LOT more root than you think you need - e.g. the two that made it are both about 2 in. trunks in collection boxes measuring 14x16 in. by about 6 in. deep.

Did you build the box yourself with wood? That sounds like a fun project to me.

 

[brewmeister83]

Did you build the box yourself with wood? That sounds like a fun project to me.

Yep, used some cedar slat that was sitting around the workshop, couple of screws, and some aluminum screen stapled into the bottom to keep the soil from falling out. Great thing is you can build the box to fit the roots after you dig the tree up.

 

[Zach Smith]

No Problem, always glad to help if I can.

Oh, and btw hawthorns growing in fairly open ground usually have big lateral roots with little feeder root close to the trunk, so take a LOT more root than you think you need - e.g. the two that made it are both about 2 in. trunks in collection boxes measuring 14x16 in. by about 6 in. deep.

I have never found any benefit to leaving the large lateral roots longer than what will ultimately allow the tree to fit into a bonsai container. (You usually get little to no fine roots.) These will sprout roots from the cut ends. If you leave them too long, you'll just have to do more cutting in a few years. Also, I've found that hawthorns sometimes grow fine roots profusely and other times only minimally. Either way doesn't seem to faze them. They love growing in small containers.

I dust the ends of the large roots with Rootone before potting. As noted above, survival rates at least 90%.

For what it's worth.

Zach

 

[Cypress]

Found Hackberry in the same woods!!! Collecting advice?

Found a whole bunch of gnarly old hackberry trees in the same woos so I'm going to collect one of those as well. Any advice specific to collecting Hackberry????

 

[BrianBay9]

Collect in early spring. In my experience they'll regrow from virtually no feeder roots. Cut the laterals, bend the trunk over and cut the tap root. When you get it home cut the base flat, put in well-draining soil in the shade and leave it alone for the first year. I've had 100% survival - easiest thing I've ever collected.

Brian

 

[Cypress]

Collect in early spring. In my experience they'll regrow from virtually no feeder roots. Cut the laterals, bend the trunk over and cut the tap root. When you get it home cut the base flat, put in well-draining soil in the shade and leave it alone for the first year. I've had 100% survival - easiest thing I've ever collected.

Brian

Nice! Thanks!

 

[clive bennett]

as far as I am aware Toy's secret formula is remove as much soil as possible but dont wash.
plant in a box just big enough to take the roots, free drain mix,water, ground heating , wooden tray, electric heating and filled with sand.
Plave tree and box in black polythene bag blow it up like a balloon and seal.
Open once a day and change the air in it, idea is to get tree warm in very humid atmosphere I believe .
I tried it last year no electric bottom heat but lost the two hawthorn trees so going back to standard procedures and digging earlier (feb in UK)
Good luck