Seeking advice for several trees

[Ceijay]

chinese tallow


Gum or maple


Maple



Willow oak


Unknown


Chinese privet


Here is the sum of my current tree collection. It is what is though. I'd like to know if I should cut back anything for winter.

Also a bit of good news, I may be living in this house longer than previously planned so these might all end up in the actual ground soon.

Anyway tell what you think. Thanks.

 

[sorce]

I'd like to see the willow oak better.

That looks wicked!

Sorce

 

[aml1014]

I agree, definitely wanna see the willow oak.

Aaron

 

[Ceijay]

I will try and get pictures of it tomorrow. I haven't posted this oak on the forums before but it was collected about two years ago with my other willow oak.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Interesting to see other Oak fans emerge from woodwork. Possible to see pop bottle or something for size comparo next to trees? Do not disparage personal trees. Better than starting out with mallsai or similar.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

all your trees have a bit of growing to do, but all, with time could become good bonsai. Do you have a specific question you need help with?

If your collection was mine, all would be in nursery or grow boxes or Anderson flats, you need to thicken those trunks. I too think the willow oak has potential, but it is the one with the largest diameter trunk.

The one listed as gum or maple has a nice pattern of buds on the trunk, the buds are in an alternate pattern, it can not be a maple, as all maples have buds opposite to each other at each node. The tupelo have alternate leaf pattern. The bud pattern suggests a tree that will be relatively easy to train as bonsai once you get the diameter of the trunk up to size. If it is black gum aka black tupelo, Nyssa sylvatica, they make excellent bonsai, famous for brilliant autumn colors. If it is water tupelo, or tupelo gum - Nyssa aquatica - it also has been used for bonsai, though its leaves are a bit larger than Nyssa sylvatica. N.aquatica tends to develop a wide, fluted base, much like a bald cypress, and lives in bald cypress swamps. If it is something else, it might still be good for bonsai. All Nyssa develop a rough alligator checked bark with age.

The chinese tallow tree - Triadica sebifera - is an invasive species. Nothing wrong with using it for bonsai, in fact, getting these out of the landscape into a pot where it is less likely to spread seed is a ''good thing''. It is very fast growing, may be hard to keep on top of. Leaves tend to be large, but developing multiple levels of branch ramification will bring leaf size down. Looks like it will bud back easily, making the use of grow out then chop back hard a ''go to'' technique. I have seen photos of this as penjing, from Taiwan or China. I think they were pretty good sized trees, over 2 feet tall (>0.6 meters) I will be curious to see how it develops. Because it grows fast, you can probably get the trunk up to a useable diameter in 3 years or so. Warning, tallow trees secrete toxins that kill off competing vegetation, don't try to use it in a mixed species forest planting, or you will end up with just tallow trees in your forest planting. (much like walnut)

Even for the smallest of bonsai, you want trunks larger than 1 inch (> 2.5 cm) in diameter. Better, even for small bonsai is a trunk over 2 inches (> 5 cm). This would be for a tree less than 8 inches tall when finally ready for display. Medium size bonsai trunk should be over 2 inches, to 4 inches in diameter, or larger in more extreme examples. (4 inches is roughly 10 cm) Bonsai over 24 inches tall need trunks well over 4 inches in diameter for most designs.

This means that all these trees, in order to get these larger diameter trunks will need to be grown out to fairly larger size, as a whip, to 6 feet tall or taller, or be forced to bush out, like a hedge. Diameter of trunk is determined mainly by the total amount of foliage the bush or tree supports.

But all the trees you have posted have potential, after growing out for 5 to 10 years depending on what the final size of the bonsai you want to have. Grow them for fat trunks. Keep them in nursery size grow pots for a while.

Good reference articles on growing pre-bonsai can be found here
http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/articles.htm

 

[Ceijay]

here are a few more of the willow oak. It has not been in the best of health unfortunately ever since it was collected so I just leave it alone and try to forget about it until probably this spring when I'll finally try and revitalize it. The two greenish branches are the only ones alive at the moment and past those it is dead so that will need to be amended some time in the distant future. No idea that the roots look like right now but I can tell you when it went into that pot it had zero feeder roots. Also I lied about it's age, it was collected the same day as this so that makes it in a pot for a little over a year.

 

[Ceijay]

all your trees have a bit of growing to do, but all, with time could become good bonsai. Do you have a specific question you need help with?

If your collection was mine, all would be in nursery or grow boxes or Anderson flats, you need to thicken those trunks. I too think the willow oak has potential, but it is the one with the largest diameter trunk.

The one listed as gum or maple has a nice pattern of buds on the trunk, the buds are in an alternate pattern, it can not be a maple, as all maples have buds opposite to each other at each node. The tupelo have alternate leaf pattern. The bud pattern suggests a tree that will be relatively easy to train as bonsai once you get the diameter of the trunk up to size. If it is black gum aka black tupelo, Nyssa sylvatica, they make excellent bonsai, famous for brilliant autumn colors. If it is water tupelo, or tupelo gum - Nyssa aquatica - it also has been used for bonsai, though its leaves are a bit larger than Nyssa sylvatica. N.aquatica tends to develop a wide, fluted base, much like a bald cypress, and lives in bald cypress swamps. If it is something else, it might still be good for bonsai. All Nyssa develop a rough alligator checked bark with age.

The chinese tallow tree - Triadica sebifera - is an invasive species. Nothing wrong with using it for bonsai, in fact, getting these out of the landscape into a pot where it is less likely to spread seed is a ''good thing''. It is very fast growing, may be hard to keep on top of. Leaves tend to be large, but developing multiple levels of branch ramification will bring leaf size down. Looks like it will bud back easily, making the use of grow out then chop back hard a ''go to'' technique. I have seen photos of this as penjing, from Taiwan or China. I think they were pretty good sized trees, over 2 feet tall (>0.6 meters) I will be curious to see how it develops. Because it grows fast, you can probably get the trunk up to a useable diameter in 3 years or so. Warning, tallow trees secrete toxins that kill off competing vegetation, don't try to use it in a mixed species forest planting, or you will end up with just tallow trees in your forest planting. (much like walnut)

Even for the smallest of bonsai, you want trunks larger than 1 inch (> 2.5 cm) in diameter. Better, even for small bonsai is a trunk over 2 inches (> 5 cm). This would be for a tree less than 8 inches tall when finally ready for display. Medium size bonsai trunk should be over 2 inches, to 4 inches in diameter, or larger in more extreme examples. (4 inches is roughly 10 cm) Bonsai over 24 inches tall need trunks well over 4 inches in diameter for most designs.

This means that all these trees, in order to get these larger diameter trunks will need to be grown out to fairly larger size, as a whip, to 6 feet tall or taller, or be forced to bush out, like a hedge. Diameter of trunk is determined mainly by the total amount of foliage the bush or tree supports.

But all the trees you have posted have potential, after growing out for 5 to 10 years depending on what the final size of the bonsai you want to have. Grow them for fat trunks. Keep them in nursery size grow pots for a while.

Good reference articles on growing pre-bonsai can be found here
http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/articles.htm

No nothing specific except for maybe if I can cut them back or not ( although I'd be nervous to cut back the oak since I think it is pretty weak still.) I've already cut back some and I only ask because unexpected cold snaps and freezes cause a lot of die back and damage, especially on the tallow.

Other than that your post is EXACTLY the type of info I find most helpful, so thank you very much.

I guess maybe one other question I have is would everyone still recommend I put these in the ground, as that option has currently become available, or would some of them do as well or better in boxes.

Also my soil is still really bad sorry for now.


please excuse my spelling.

 

[Zach Smith]

Here is the sum of my current tree collection. It is what is though. I'd like to know if I should cut back anything for winter.

Also a bit of good news, I may be living in this house longer than previously planned so these might all end up in the actual ground soon.

Anyway tell what you think. Thanks.

chinese tallow

Throw it out - very frustrating to work with and you won't learn much more than that

Gum or maple

It's a gum. Remove the wire and let it grow a season or two to gain heft, then start to work on it.

Maple

Let it grow out for at least a season or two before working on it.

Willow oak

Not a bad start, but I'd still let it grow out for a year or two to get more heft in the trunk.

Unknown

Figure out what it is and then go from there. Probably too small to be worth working on at this time, so it'll need to grow more.

Chinese privet

You can wire this one out next spring and play around with it. Not a lot of taper, so you may want to chop it back and regrow to create taper.

Good luck with your trees!

Zach

 

[fredman]

Observation..... chuck the soil man

 

[Ceijay]

Observation..... chuck the soil man

Yes I wish I could.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Zack Smith has more experience with willow oak than most people, I have zero experience with willow oak. Follow his lead.

I would not prune anything now, even though for all your trees winter dormancy is a good time to prune. Why? You need to bulk up your trunks, and total volume of foliage is what drives the trunk increasing in diameter. All these are too small to do much with yet. You are in the southern half of the USA, it won't take that many years to get nice, useful size to your trunks. Your growing season is at least 2 months longer than mine.