Seiju Elm Leaf Scorch

VelosoWrex

Seedling
Messages
10
Reaction score
3
Location
Kearny, New Jersey
USDA Zone
7a
Recently got a 3 year old Seiju Elm about three weeks ago. I have been watering it once a day, although one day in the summer it got hot and I wasn’t able to water it and overnight/throughout the day, it got what I believe it leaf scorch. It came from Texas so I assumed it was ready for direct sunlight although I think it got stressed during shipping/transit, new watering schedule and it’s new environment. It passed the scratch test and has somewhat new growth on the tips. Please review the attached posted pictures. The leaves with brown tips are the old ones which have also got leaf scorch.
 

Attachments

  • DA5A129F-8443-4289-9558-C8F0A371F499.jpeg
    DA5A129F-8443-4289-9558-C8F0A371F499.jpeg
    174.5 KB · Views: 58
  • D9944AFD-C40C-4EE1-93EE-C4C7EC9D2D80.jpeg
    D9944AFD-C40C-4EE1-93EE-C4C7EC9D2D80.jpeg
    154.1 KB · Views: 50
  • 9C5E05CD-5513-465A-A9E5-5677E54C7AC0.jpeg
    9C5E05CD-5513-465A-A9E5-5677E54C7AC0.jpeg
    191.3 KB · Views: 53

Forsoothe!

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,878
Reaction score
9,050
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
6b
Growing seasons around the world vary widely and it is difficult to get a perspective on what someone says when we don't know where in the world they are. If you go to the upper right hand corner and click on your Icon, you can add your location and people will be able to customize advice for you, and you might connect with another local.




<<<<< It will show here

You picked a bad time of year to make your mistake. It is generally to late for new foliage to come out and if it does that is just using up next springs buds with not enough time to replace them. You want that to not happen. Cut off all the leaves and water only every 5th or 6th day. It shouldn't get bone dry, but shouldn't stay wet either. Put the tree in the shade until it goes into winter storage. Don't do anything else until spring.
 

VelosoWrex

Seedling
Messages
10
Reaction score
3
Location
Kearny, New Jersey
USDA Zone
7a
Growing seasons around the world vary widely and it is difficult to get a perspective on what someone says when we don't know where in the world they are. If you go to the upper right hand corner and click on your Icon, you can add your location and people will be able to customize advice for you, and you might connect with another local.




<<<<< It will show here

You picked a bad time of year to make your mistake. It is generally to late for new foliage to come out and if it does that is just using up next springs buds with not enough time to replace them. You want that to not happen. Cut off all the leaves and water only every 5th or 6th day. It shouldn't get bone dry, but shouldn't stay wet either. Put the tree in the shade until it goes into winter storage. Don't do anything else until spring.
Apologies for not setting up my profile correctly. I just set it up and hopefully it reads correctly. Otherwise it’ll have to wait till morning for me to update via my PC. But in the meantime; Location: Kearny, NJ (Zone: 7a).

I definitely agree with this being the worst time to make this mistake. I will update with photos after the removal of the foliage and moving locations. This is definitely a lesson learned throughout my very young journey of learning bonsai (less than 6+ months). I really appreciate your response and advice. 😁
 

n8

Shohin
Messages
320
Reaction score
607
Location
Central Sacramento Valley
USDA Zone
9a
Does not look like leaf scorch to me. Pretty tough to scorch elm leaves. I have several dozen in full 100+ degree sun throughout the summer.

This looks more dried out or poorly watered. Looked OK when it arrived?

They'll bounce back, but you don't have much more season to work with in NJ. Agree with plucking or cutting leaves off to see what pops out. It ain't dead... yet.
 

VelosoWrex

Seedling
Messages
10
Reaction score
3
Location
Kearny, New Jersey
USDA Zone
7a
Does not look like leaf scorch to me. Pretty tough to scorch elm leaves. I have several dozen in full 100+ degree sun throughout the summer.

This looks more dried out or poorly watered. Looked OK when it arrived?

They'll bounce back, but you don't have much more season to work with in NJ. Agree with plucking or cutting leaves off to see what pops out. It ain't dead... yet.
Yeah it looked full and green when I got it aside from a few leaves here and there from shipping. And it is weird because I have my other Chinese Elm and it’s just exploding with growth and we’ve had temperatures in the 90s. I believe the previous owner watered three times a day and I switched it to one time a day since it had afternoon shade from around 2:00 to sunset.
 

n8

Shohin
Messages
320
Reaction score
607
Location
Central Sacramento Valley
USDA Zone
9a
Tough call, but you learned an important lesson about watering:

It doesn't matter how often you're watering. It matters that you're watering when the plant needs it.
 

VelosoWrex

Seedling
Messages
10
Reaction score
3
Location
Kearny, New Jersey
USDA Zone
7a
Tough call, but you learned an important lesson about watering:

It doesn't matter how often you're watering. It matters that you're watering when the plant needs it.
Yup, can definitely agree with that. Missed one watering schedule and was definitely unforgiving.
 

Brian Van Fleet

Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Messages
13,231
Reaction score
40,559
Location
B’ham, AL
USDA Zone
8A
Looks like a root issue. Is watering once a day the right schedule? Does the container have a drain hole? Do you notice the trunk “wicking” after watering and drying back out later in the day? Chinese elms are tough, but can be susceptible to root rot if your watering habits and/or soil aren’t good.
 

Shibui

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,092
Reaction score
9,677
Location
Yackandandah, Australia
USDA Zone
9?
Every soil mix is different. Different soils hold differing amounts of water. Watering once a day may be fine with one soil but will be woefully inadequate with a better draining soil mix.
Every new tree needs to be individually monitored to work out the right frequency for that plant in that pot in that soil in your environment.
The fact that the previous owner waters 3 times a day speaks volumes for how well this particular soil mix drains.

As has already been said, Chinese elm is tough so chances are it will come back sooner or later so continue care and cross fingers. The tree will need less water now it has no leaves so keep checking and water according to need.
Good luck.
 

Forsoothe!

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,878
Reaction score
9,050
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
6b
Trees in the landscape can't be moved to shade when hot weather comes. Trees in pots don't need that either if watered enough. If your media won't hold enough water because you have chosen to use a lot of inorganics then shame on you. Water usage is function of transpiration minus humidity, we expect high water use when the sun is hot, but when humidity is lower and/or winds are higher water loss(usage) increases. Deeper pots are useful, too, and in some combination with non-organic media can conquer all. People who insist upon immatating the Japanese ethic of tiny pots and non-organic soils without having same committment of personal availability to preform the watering duties, et al will miss the boat from time-to-time.
 

VelosoWrex

Seedling
Messages
10
Reaction score
3
Location
Kearny, New Jersey
USDA Zone
7a
Looks like a root issue. Is watering once a day the right schedule? Does the container have a drain hole? Do you notice the trunk “wicking” after watering and drying back out later in the day? Chinese elms are tough, but can be susceptible to root rot if your watering habits and/or soil aren’t good.
What do you mean by the “wicking” effect after watering? And yes the hole on the bottom is about 2in. in diameter. And I believe watering once a day was plenty. The soil would stay damp throughout the day until the next morning.
 

VelosoWrex

Seedling
Messages
10
Reaction score
3
Location
Kearny, New Jersey
USDA Zone
7a
Trees in the landscape can't be moved to shade when hot weather comes. Trees in pots don't need that either if watered enough. If your media won't hold enough water because you have chosen to use a lot of inorganics then shame on you. Water usage is function of transpiration minus humidity, we expect high water use when the sun is hot, but when humidity is lower and/or winds are higher water loss(usage) increases. Deeper pots are useful, too, and in some combination with non-organic media can conquer all. People who insist upon immatating the Japanese ethic of tiny pots and non-organic soils without having same committment of personal availability to preform the watering duties, et al will miss the boat from time-to-time.
The media used to plant the tree definitely holds enough water and moisture. This is the only tree I was having issues with, unlike my other 10+ trees which have been thriving under similar conditions. I definitely wouldn’t say it’s a commitment issue or a soil issue.
 

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
Messages
10,884
Reaction score
22,329
Location
Charlotte area, North Carolina
USDA Zone
8a
Looks like root problems due to failure to water or due to overwatering. Given the short time period, and the foliage crash, I would assume the former. Normally if you are overwatering the roots don't all die at once... but they will if you let them dry out for a day.

And I agree with comments above that it is hard to over-expose Seiju to sun. I kept them out in full sun in southern California, and they didn't miss a beat.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
31,836
Reaction score
43,731
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
You can runaround trying to figure out what happened with this tree, or dig local elms that will never need such worry, and provide better material.

Welcome to Crazy!

These "small leafed elms" are one of the worst gimmicks in bonsai.

Sorce
 

VelosoWrex

Seedling
Messages
10
Reaction score
3
Location
Kearny, New Jersey
USDA Zone
7a
You can runaround trying to figure out what happened with this tree, or dig local elms that will never need such worry, and provide better material.

Welcome to Crazy!

These "small leafed elms" are one of the worst gimmicks in bonsai.

Sorce
Oh believe me, I can understand what your saying, my Chinese Elm is doing amazing. This is the only tree I’ve been having an issue with.
 

Forsoothe!

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,878
Reaction score
9,050
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
6b
You can runaround trying to figure out what happened with this tree, or dig local elms that will never need such worry, and provide better material.

Welcome to Crazy!

These "small leafed elms" are one of the worst gimmicks in bonsai.

Sorce
Boo Hiss. They are wonderful. They are in scale to bonsai, there are a bunch of different varieties/cultivars, and if properly cared for are stars!
The media used to plant the tree definitely holds enough water and moisture. This is the only tree I was having issues with, unlike my other 10+ trees which have been thriving under similar conditions. I definitely wouldn’t say it’s a commitment issue or a soil issue.
Ok, so not the media or the committment. What's that leave?
 

VelosoWrex

Seedling
Messages
10
Reaction score
3
Location
Kearny, New Jersey
USDA Zone
7a
Boo Hiss. They are wonderful. They are in scale to bonsai, there are a bunch of different varieties/cultivars, and if properly cared for are stars!

Ok, so not the media or the committment. What's that leave?
No idea, I removed all the leaves as of this morning. That’s why I came to the forum to ask the experts such as yourself. The soil looks very moist still from yesterday’s watering. I’ve attached some photos.
 

Attachments

  • ED86516C-DE4F-4533-BEDE-2D1BBB698E38.jpeg
    ED86516C-DE4F-4533-BEDE-2D1BBB698E38.jpeg
    158.4 KB · Views: 19
  • 3AFD607C-BDDF-4C1A-918F-13084E549B82.jpeg
    3AFD607C-BDDF-4C1A-918F-13084E549B82.jpeg
    93.1 KB · Views: 12
  • 891596ED-FD87-4636-9B4E-EF98BD2C34E7.jpeg
    891596ED-FD87-4636-9B4E-EF98BD2C34E7.jpeg
    203.7 KB · Views: 18

Forsoothe!

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,878
Reaction score
9,050
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
6b
No idea, I removed all the leaves as of this morning. That’s why I came to the forum to ask the experts such as yourself. The soil looks very moist still from yesterday’s watering. I’ve attached some photos.
The soil looks very moist the day after watering a tree with no leaves. Now that's a believable statement.
 

VelosoWrex

Seedling
Messages
10
Reaction score
3
Location
Kearny, New Jersey
USDA Zone
7a
The soil looks very moist the day after watering a tree with no leaves. Now that's a believable statement.
I watered it in the morning yesterday and it was an 85+ degree day. I don’t know if you’re just coming off as an ass but if you just wanna shame over a humanly mistake than thank you for not understanding humans make mistakes.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
M Seiju Elm Weird Leaf Growth. Elms 3
Jaymatsby Nursery Seiju Elm Progression Elms 12
E Seiju Elm Starter Elms 11
JonW Large Seiju Elm Stock Elms 26
Hartinez Managing growth in Yatsubusa and Seiju elm Elms 16

Similar threads

Top Bottom