severe root pruning a maple: how to transition from a big nursery pot to a bonsai pot - help wanted!

[Deleted member 21616]

not long ago I planted a 36" red dragon in my front yard, no chop in the plans for this tree

I bought 2 Hogyoku must be 7-8' tall, both in pots, they're staying in pots, no chopping

my wife has a bird of paradise in a pot, no chops there either

etc.

This Aka Shigitatsu Sawa could be planted in the ground as is. I'm putting it in a pot instead. Either way (ground or pot) I would work the branches and ramification

@LanceMac10 how heavy is it really? it's a 2-person tree? not a 4-person? I definitely have heated/vented shed space that can overwinter this tree.

 

[0soyoung]

not long ago I planted a 36" red dragon in my front yard, no chop in the plans for this tree

I bought 2 Hogyoku must be 7-8' tall, both in pots, they're staying in pots, no chopping

my wife has a bird of paradise in a pot, no chops there either

I have a Hogyoku about the same size in a pot on my patio. It is now at the end of its pumpkin colored show for this year. My ground planted Aka shigatatsu sawa has new leaves on the tips of many branches right now.

This isn't bonsai. It is "patio trees" (not that there is anything wrong with that, but it isn't bonsai ).

 

[Adair M]

haha thanks @Adair M i appreciate your advice, and if I were planning to make a bonsai in the usual sense I would follow your advice meticulously.

However, i don't intend this to be a 'bonsai' tree in the usual sense.

What I want is a 5 foot tall tree, in a bonsai pot. But i want a 5 foot tree, which is why i bought this tree. it wasn't an accident.

As I mentioned earlier, i'm not looking for impressive trunk taper, or even a remarkable nebari. I simply want a landscape tree, in a pot. Yes, I'll style it, and ramify the branches, etc. but I don't plan on submitting it to Nationals, for example.

I'm looking to the tree of @LanceMac10 (1st pic in my previous post) for inspiration. To me it's 4 foot tall tree in a pot that has been given the bonsai treatment as far as ramification and branch selection goes.

I don't really care for terms, so the "either it's bonsai or it's not bonsai" doesn't really mean anything to me

Alright then, there are all kinds of planters you could use rather than a bonsai pot that would probably look better.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

I have a Hogyoku about the same size in a pot on my patio.

This isn't bonsai. It is "patio trees".

yes I of course completely agree

lololol i think i'm getting tangled up in terminology that I want no part of to begin with

What i want is a 60" inch maple tree in a bonsai pot. I'm never going to call it a 'bonsai tree' or assume that it is one.

Alright then, there are all kinds of planters you could use rather than a bonsai pot that would probably look better.

That would 100% be a personal aesthetic decision. You may or may not approve of @LanceMac10 's 47" tall tree, but I plan to do something similar, but 13" taller and, as I mentioned in my initial post, with no pressing concern for adhering to 'bonsai aesthetics'. Nonetheless, the tree will be wired, pruned, and ramified etc. just like my red dragon planted in the ground, or my neighbours 25 foot tall bloodgood maple planted in the ground or his 14' emperor1 in a pot.

I appreciate everyone trying to guide me towards turning this tree into a 'bonsai', but that unfortunately isn't my plan for this tree. I have many trees being trained for bonsai in the usual sense. This tree will be something different, and not a 'bonsai'.

I realize that I am posting in a bonsai forum, but I am posting here because I am very aware that there are many members with exceptional knowledge about japanese maples in this community. Moreover, the techniques or process that I was inquiring into are the very methods one would apply to bonsai trees. This seemed like the right place to get the answer i was looking for, and in fact the community kindly provided an incredibly thorough response within 2 hours! I'm very grateful of this and I owe many members several beers by now for all of the help i've received

I'm glad we did achieve the point of this thread though - I now have a very clear understanding about how to transition my tree into a bonsai pot, and anybody looking this up in the future will have to go no further than the first 5 posts to get a perfect answer!

I'll post pics in 2020

Thank you everyone

 

[ysrgrathe]

8 gallons isn't even that big! The biggest challenge in transitioning from nursery cans is typically the depth of the rootball. These trees often have large woody masses that go easily 6"+ deep. It's always fine to be conservative about how much you reduce, but I would follow the advice given and do a full bare root. Then, make sure you have a deep enough container to avoid severe root pruning, and each year just keep removing more of the woody roots.

I have an 8 gallon tree that I'll be repotting this spring, probably into an anderson flat (TRAY6 at the link below). If it's too unwieldy for some reason though I'll just reduce the root ball and put it in bonsai soil back in the same can or a slightly smaller one.
http://www.stuewe.com/products/archive/2010/anderson_ORIG.php

I always thought these would be cool containers for a larger patio tree:
http://www.essenceofthetree.com/products/show/391-planter-bowl

Edit: I missed initially that the tree would be picked up in May.

 

[ysrgrathe]

Here is a good example. I don't have the very earliest pic, but the first shot is after the first repotting -- it went from an IIRC 15 gallon can to a cut-down version of the can in 2016, then root pruned and put back in the same can in 2017, then put in a bonsai-depth container in 2018. The shelf in the first pic is about 8' tall for scale.

Why did I do this? Well...originally because I wanted a sango kaku in Pittsburgh but they always died in the winter, so I was trying to get one in a smaller pot that could be stored in my cold garage in winter. Then, I moved to CA and couldn't transport it, so I decided to see how small I could make it. Why I went to all this work for a telephone pole...I am less sure.

 

[Deleted member 21616]

@ysrgrathe

Thank you for all of this info, and for sharing the links and pics! I hope i get lucky with the roots! I'll surely take pics as I'm doing the work.

By the way, nice pergola! I had saved that photo a long time ago, I think it came up in my google-image searches! I had saved it before I knew about this forum I think.

yes, i'm picking it up in May. I wasn't sure if anything could be done in spring 2019 after the leaves had emerged, which is why i opened this thread now.

The plan: I am going to let the tree do it's thing for all of 2019, and then bare root it in spring 2020 like a few people have suggested now. I'm confident this is the right path now

An anderson flat might be a good idea, thanks for that tip! I may make a box out of wood. Not sure yet. I'm going to see with my wife if she can paint an anderson flat to make it look like a glaze