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PABonsai

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Since we are open to critiquing, could someone possibly give some feedback on my crappy juniper shown in #10? This was literally my very first time wiring a tree ever, so I don't have much of an eye. The wire was removed about a month ago and the plan was to wire it back up come spring with minimal pruning. Any thoughts @Smoke?
 

sorce

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I put this in the other tree thread an hr ago. Then it snowed on it and it’s for sure my favourite tree at this moment in time.

Very simple and self explanatory progression for this one, about three scissor snips 4 wires and 1 repot is all it’s taken so far. View attachment 265949


View attachment 265950
These new people don't know about bonsai stealing drones.
That motherfucker is currently being targeted!

Um... less snow! More time...how bout posting something that needs a critique! Ha!

Great tree.

Sorce
 

sorce

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@PABonsai I don't know of you missed this in my rant.

Pic IMG_6601.JPG
he juniper .....
I would look into a future of using only the left branch, rewiring it in about 2-3 years, slowly removing the rest for cuttings
Further. This tree is rookie move after rookie move. But it seems living enough to keep teaching you!

For me, unless you're grafting(not worth the effort), the entire top is useless, cept for Dem cuttings, which can be used for trade, later grafting, trees, so don't discount them. It's like having bonsai currency, shimpaku cuttings are.

I like to leave an entire plan b branch at the bottom. Why? Their potential to cause problems is Nil. The benefits are many ..

And if you gotta use em for an entire plan B, well, some great trees have been made from plan B!

That lower left branch is essentially your plan b branch. Many and close still useable branches. It can provide you with excellence if you allow it.

Before plan B though...
We try to use the whole tree, this is important for both health and design options. So,
I look for something interesting low to make a purchase and work up (in mind) to see what else can be useful in a design to compliment that interest. Then keep going up till you find a piece that just won't work, not many branches, too straight, etc..
And (in mind) design your tree from there.
But still don't cut anything off.

When you identify what will make your FUTURE tree, isolate it, but don't remove everything else.

This tree can be said to have been isolated to that first left branch. Leave everything as is to aid health, knowing it will be cut off in time.
Build your isolated tree and as it gains health, remove the other pieces.
Growing cycles end at the summer Solstice and before winter. This is when health should be assessed, and using this pic, and the new growth, identify the amount that can safely be removed, and still allow your tree enough foliage to let it grow.

Using pictures and keeping the foliage mass as large as it started, just slowly transferring growth to where your isolated future tree is, allows you to bonsai with healthy trees.

It's this "cup theory" which is really a method....
The tree upon receipt from the nursery is a healthy full cup. Keep it that full.

Remember, we see people like Smoke, and others with well controlled winters, take these trees back to near nothing, because they have a long enough season to regrow the foliage needed for life, or a greenhouse, or they understand it will be 2-3 years before revisiting the tree for pruning. They also prune before growth spurts.

I hope no one else has anything to say!😜

Sorce
 

wireme

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These new people don't know about bonsai stealing drones.
That motherfucker is currently being targeted!

Um... less snow! More time...how bout posting something that needs a critique! Ha!

Great tree.

Sorce
Thanks Sorce!

The positioning in the pot should be critiqued IMO, it doesn’t satisfy me, leaning a bit away is the worst of the whole thing. Nevertheless I love the image captured there in the snow, shoulda called Anthony and had him bring out the hologram machine for that moment eh?
 

sorce

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The positioning in the pot should be critiqued
Move the snow eh!

Lol!

9E4ACA25-69DF-4A4B-B05D-4F72379AA42F.jpeg
Can't tell it leans away. If it does, it kinda just adds to the human feeling of leaning into the snow for protection, face looking back down the body. You know the day! Ice whiskers!

I guess I was critiquing the photo more than the tree, sorry for that. The snow is incredible. Perfect angle.

Now I gotta go see about this hologram machine? Bloody @Anthony !
Sounds like an island thought! And they think y'all got cabin fever!

Sorce
 

sorce

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Oh and no need to say remove them skinny jins, I got a 20 says this winter gets em!

Sorce
 

PABonsai

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@PABonsai I don't know of you missed this in my rant.
Thanks @sorce. I actually did see your original comments and thanks. I was just trying to coax a critique from @Smoke in light of that other furor on the site. I'm interested in hearing how he views this POS because now, 3 months after my intro class I think I can spot a few items that I can change to get it into an informal upright. So I'm interested to see if some of what I think is on the right track.
 

River's Edge

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@PABonsai I don't know of you missed this in my rant.

Pic View attachment 266100


Further. This tree is rookie move after rookie move. But it seems living enough to keep teaching you!

For me, unless you're grafting(not worth the effort), the entire top is useless, cept for Dem cuttings, which can be used for trade, later grafting, trees, so don't discount them. It's like having bonsai currency, shimpaku cuttings are.

I like to leave an entire plan b branch at the bottom. Why? Their potential to cause problems is Nil. The benefits are many ..

And if you gotta use em for an entire plan B, well, some great trees have been made from plan B!

That lower left branch is essentially your plan b branch. Many and close still useable branches. It can provide you with excellence if you allow it.

Before plan B though...
We try to use the whole tree, this is important for both health and design options. So,
I look for something interesting low to make a purchase and work up (in mind) to see what else can be useful in a design to compliment that interest. Then keep going up till you find a piece that just won't work, not many branches, too straight, etc..
And (in mind) design your tree from there.
But still don't cut anything off.

When you identify what will make your FUTURE tree, isolate it, but don't remove everything else.

This tree can be said to have been isolated to that first left branch. Leave everything as is to aid health, knowing it will be cut off in time.
Build your isolated tree and as it gains health, remove the other pieces.
Growing cycles end at the summer Solstice and before winter. This is when health should be assessed, and using this pic, and the new growth, identify the amount that can safely be removed, and still allow your tree enough foliage to let it grow.

Using pictures and keeping the foliage mass as large as it started, just slowly transferring growth to where your isolated future tree is, allows you to bonsai with healthy trees.

It's this "cup theory" which is really a method....
The tree upon receipt from the nursery is a healthy full cup. Keep it that full.

Remember, we see people like Smoke, and others with well controlled winters, take these trees back to near nothing, because they have a long enough season to regrow the foliage needed for life, or a greenhouse, or they understand it will be 2-3 years before revisiting the tree for pruning. They also prune before growth spurts.

I hope no one else has anything to say!😜

Sorce
Nice summary , the OP should print and put it on the fridge!
 

PABonsai

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Honestly @sorce in reading your last comment again I feel overwhelmed. You threw a lot out there, maybe it's just the forum format and since we aren't face to face. So you'd cut the top off, starting where? Above the final branch? i suppose I could see some form of cascade coming from that left branch because it is huge and will eventually need trained back. I just don't know at this point. I don't have an eye for it and right now everything is just so damn scraggly looking.
 

sorce

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Thanks @River's Edge ...

Let me know when you wanna trade some refrigerator art for that twinnie!
Lol! Love that tree!
Capture+_2019-10-09-22-05-12.png

Sorce
 

sorce

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@PABonsai Cascade? Rookie move!😜

Nah...I was thinking turn it up, that's a lot of movement. But that future is years off.

Of the top, basically....
When your future tree (the left branch) regrows as much foliage as is contained in that top tuft, cut the top tuft.
The key is the pictures, because you may have to trim your future tree back some, because we ARE designing it too, it may take a couple growing seasons to actually retain that much foliage on your future tree, to allow the top cut.
When your first branch is complete, it should contain as much or more foliage than the top tuft. Cut it.
When your second branch is complete, it should contain as much or more foliage than that second tuft up on the right. Cut that off.
Third branch, those 2 weak ass pieces, cut em.
By now your tree has its own energy to start this process with it itself. Cut the opposing bar branch off and finalize the design of your keeper.
Capture+_2019-10-09-22-20-05.png

Sorce
 
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...here is my contribution - what I believe is an azalea that I saved from a scrapheap about a year and a half ago. This is a before pic View attachment 266089 I recently did some work on it and will soon post that picture too (I have to take one but it's too dark outside right now).
So this morning took pics of my favorite literati. What the before pic didn't show was how tall the right trunk was. I wanted to separate it from the other trunks but when I started to cut, the left trunk smoothly broke off at the roots. So I cut off the other trunk, leaving the tall one. I wired the top but one branch broke so I made it a jin. The final result is 25 inches tall.DSCN6951.jpg I'm letting the lowest branch grow for now.DSCN6940.jpgDSCN6937.jpg
 

wireme

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Move the snow eh!

Lol!

View attachment 266101
Can't tell it leans away. If it does, it kinda just adds to the human feeling of leaning into the snow for protection, face looking back down the body. You know the day! Ice whiskers!

I guess I was critiquing the photo more than the tree, sorry for that. The snow is incredible. Perfect angle.

Now I gotta go see about this hologram machine? Bloody @Anthony !
Sounds like an island thought! And they think y'all got cabin fever!

Sorce
Without snow, just before it started, shoulda taken that guy wire off for the pic it’s done it’s job. You would feel the lean away in person I’m sure. I’ll give it another year undisturbed then try to correct it. The apparent reverse taper at the base is a photo illusion. 3523E0C5-A4E8-45A9-BFE9-4F7A0748B798.jpeg
 

BobbyLane

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About 8 years ago when i started in the hobby, i started with this Carmona, at the time it was my favourite and only tree...bought from a hardware store
I remember showing a picture of it to Peter chan at his nursery, he said if i could keep it alive for more than 6 months im doing good while bellowing in laughter(theyre known in the hobby as being finnicky)View attachment 265767😂

i dont think it even lasted 3 months😂

ps ive learnt a lot since then and most of what ive learned has been from online resources and sort of doing my own thing, studying nature, studying many progression threads and studying what pros and serious enthusiasts are doing with their trees.ive joined numerous forums and not always participated in 'other' forums but read loads of content.
Following on from previous post...

my second tree i ever bought, which was my pride n joy at the time was my first foray into Chinese elms, complete with mudman and landscape pot😊
this one had a little more movement and interest than the Carmona....

i think around this point i started to get the bonsai bug and i had this redwood as well😎

im glad i took...and kept these images, i can look back and see where im at today and how much ive learned. im not embarrassed to show these, at the time i was sharing them on another forum.
 

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Underdog

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I'll post this tree which I have a love/hate relationship with. Chamaecyparis obtusa ‘Nana Gracilis’
Dwarf Hinoki cypress ‘Nana Gracilis’ has its own thread here.
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/underdogs-hinoki-challenger.35828/

When I got the tree, it was already in decline and everything I tried to help only made it worse it seems. It's finally been quite happy and healthy the last 2 years. I've gotten some good advice in the thread listed above but would welcome any input or suggestions for its future.

I know I've not done real well and the tree deserves better but, I am trying. I took it to a workshop for advice. I've read everything I could find about them. I'm still not ready to remove anything as getting it healthy has been priority.

I plan to wire again this fall and hope to do better at bringing foliage in closer. Some branches are way too long and need to go eventually. I bought some heavier wire and raffia to try for the first time too. I'm trying to get cuttings started for future grafting with poor results but have a couple starting to take I think. The long branches looping back into the trunk are less than ideal, I know but, thinking maybe approach grafting?

Great thread.
IMG_20191010_124836695.jpg
3 yrs ago
IMG_20161125_144940055.jpg
IMG_20191010_124707383.jpgIMG_20191010_150610041_HDR.jpg
 

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River's Edge

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I'll post this tree which I have a love/hate relationship with. Chamaecyparis obtusa ‘Nana Gracilis’
Dwarf Hinoki cypress ‘Nana Gracilis’ has its own thread here.
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/underdogs-hinoki-challenger.35828/

When I got the tree, it was already in decline and everything I tried to help only made it worse it seems. It's finally been quite happy and healthy the last 2 years. I've gotten some good advice in the thread listed above but would welcome any input or suggestions for its future.

I know I've not done real well and the tree deserves better but, I am trying. I took it to a workshop for advice. I've read everything I could find about them. I'm still not ready to remove anything as getting it healthy has been priority.

I plan to wire again this fall and hope to do better at bringing foliage in closer. Some branches are way too long and need to go eventually. I bought some heavier wire and raffia to try for the first time too. I'm trying to get cuttings started for future grafting with poor results but have a couple starting to take I think. The long branches looping back into the trunk are less than ideal, I know but, thinking maybe approach grafting?

Great thread.
View attachment 266513
3 yrs ago
View attachment 266515
View attachment 266517View attachment 266518
I congratulate you on returning the tree to this stage of health! The best advice i can give you is to begin working with either a different Hinoki if that is the tree you wish to work with. Or pick a suitable species that is in better condition, has better branch location and a brighter future! Particularily those that have a tendency to backbud like Juniper.
I am not saying this tree cannot be fixed. Simply it will take a very long time and considerable skill plus considerable luck!
From its previous condition there are a lot of dead areas that cannot be grafted, A lot of grafts are needed and Hinoki scions are pretty small. Approach grafting with cuttings would work!
If you put the same amount of work and care into six better candidates you would be light years ahead in both experience and accomplishment within five years.
 

Underdog

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If you put the same amount of work and care into six better candidates you would be light years ahead in both experience and accomplishment within five years.
Thanks Frank. Not so sure I want another one of these. LOL I'll just keep trying to make the best tree I can out of this one as it is one of my first(and it shows). I may try another at some point but so many other flavors of tree out there which haven't left such a bad taste in my mouth. Azaleas seem to like me... I'm just starting to try some pine. Maybe I should have posted a different tree which hasn't been so difficult for me but...
 

River's Edge

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Thanks Frank. Not so sure I want another one of these. LOL I'll just keep trying to make the best tree I can out of this one as it is one of my first(and it shows). I may try another at some point but so many other flavors of tree out there which haven't left such a bad taste in my mouth. Azaleas seem to like me... I'm just starting to try some pine. Maybe I should have posted a different tree which hasn't been so difficult for me but...
Posting it was fine, it is important to recognize the pitfalls that so often occur with certain species. Cypress has a tendency to grow out, leaving a blank interior, takes a lot of time and skill to correct!
They are also a species that take continual thinning and cut back to keep light in the interior and smaller foliage alive when they are established properly. ( 2X/yr)
Short story a lot of work, dedication and experience to keep them looking great! Slow fastidious work, not simple straight forward work like many other species.
MyTskumo cypress require 10 to 15 hours of individual work each year just to maintain, separate from normal daily care.
 

River's Edge

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thought i would share the latest little hemlock that was left at my place. Given to me to try and do something with ! There were no expectations so i felt free to see what was possible any way i liked. Picture as before and now 18 months later! Still rough, not fully wired but coming!IMG_9331.JPGIMG_0934.JPG
 

Cadillactaste

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thought i would share the latest little hemlock that was left at my place. Given to me to try and do something with ! There were no expectations so i felt free to see what was possible any way i liked. Picture as before and now 18 months later! Still rough, not fully wired but coming!View attachment 266829View attachment 266831
You bring a lot to the table my friend. 🥰
 
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