Shibui pine contest entry

Shibui

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Hi everyone.
I'm a bit late but hope you're still accepting entries.
Seed originally sourced from the JBP in my garden but has been stored for around 5 years so I wasn't confident about viability. In addition the tree has fasciation - weird new growth so I'm not sure whether that might come through in the seedlings.
Seed was sown around the middle of October - a bit later than normal for me. Note southern hemisphere so that's mid spring.
No pre-treatment. I've found that JBP seed germinates just as well without any soaking or stratification so these seeds just went straight into a seed flat with my standard bonsai mix.
Photo shows the results November 25. Note also the good crop of celery and a stray tomato. I sowed Bald cypress seed in the other half of the tray but that has not germinated.
 

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Ryceman3

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Not sure how the celery will go as bonsai but happy to have another from below the equator represented in this pine comp. Good luck with ‘em!
 

Shibui

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Nov 25:
First seedlings pricked out into individual pots. 17 at this stage.
Roots trimmed to leave the best radial roots possible. I've tried the seedling cutting method many years ago and found that results were no better than simple root pruning but making cuttings set the seedlings back several weeks so now just root prune at first transplant.
Remaining seedlings will stay in the flat until I get some space or enthusiasm or my right hand heals up enough to work with potting mix. Experience shows that it does not really matter whether seedlings are potted up young or older. Some have lived in flats for up to 3 years. Growth is a bit slower but that can be a good thing with JBP.
All currently getting fortnightly liquid fertiliser to maintain growth over summer.
 

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Shibui

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Here's something you may not have considered for pines:
Seedlings threaded through holes drilled in sheet metal. The disks I've used here are stainless steel but aluminium is easier to drill and works just as well.
I use this a lot with trident maples and it produces excellent results but I've only used it once before with pines. They can produce roots but not as easily as maples so success last time was just 2 out of 5 however the radial roots produced and thickened trunk base were excellent in both survivors so worth another try here.
 

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Potawatomi13

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Hi everyone.
I'm a bit late but hope you're still accepting entries.
Seed originally sourced from the JBP in my garden but has been stored for around 5 years so I wasn't confident about viability. In addition the tree has fasciation - weird new growth so I'm not sure whether that might come through in the seedlings.
Seed was sown around the middle of October - a bit later than normal for me. Note southern hemisphere so that's mid spring.
No pre-treatment. I've found that JBP seed germinates just as well without any soaking or stratification so these seeds just went straight into a seed flat with my standard bonsai mix.
Photo shows the results November 25. Note also the good crop of celery and a stray tomato. I sowed Bald cypress seed in the other half of the tray but that has not germinated.
Love the cosmopolitan garden;).
 

kevinlovett86

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Didn’t entries for this contest close ages ago? Anyways, I had the same idea as you for getting that rootspread. I had this coconut that my soup came in one day...
EEAEF29E-C8CE-47FC-B748-A6750378DA92.jpeg
And then I used the ‘lid’ which had a nice hole in it to feed my roots through...
8AB4411F-0F52-449B-891F-673D8E511C2B.jpeg
Normally I just let nature take its course with these things, but this will be done a bit differently
 

Shibui

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January is mid summer down here. Seedlings are growing strong - as long as I can keep the water up to them in 40+C heat most days at the moment, 44C yesterday and 43 today.

Seedlings that are still in the seed tray are now up to 4" tall.
JBP seedings Jan 2019 12.JPG
The larger ones that were potted on are also the same height.
JBP seedings Jan 2019 19.JPG
All have had liquid fertiliser weekly.

To get taper into the trunks I want low branches for sacrifice branches but JBP are very apically dominant and don't make many low branches unless I force them to. I trim the taller seedlings down to just a few needles. the others will get done when they are a little taller.
JBP seedings Jan 2019 13.JPG
P1200678.JPG

New shoots will grow from the axils very quickly at this time of year. Trimming now may slow growth rates a little but the long term results are more than worth the setback IMHO.

I see lots of people making seedling cuttings - cut the roots completely off and root the top as a cutting. This is supposed to give better nebari than the original seedling. I tried this for a few years but results were very variable - some good, most no better than the original seedling. Might be my technique but not worth the time and effort for me.

After I started to trim the seedlings a few years ago I realised that juvenile pine material can root quite well and I now have plenty of juvenile growth JBP material available.
JBP seedings Jan 2019 14.JPG

I now make cuttings with the bits I trim off.
JBP seedings Jan 2019 15.JPG
JBP seedings Jan 2019 16.JPG
JBP seedings Jan 2019 17.JPG

Strike rate for these is close to 100%. Roots are still variable but many do have good 360 deg roots. The bonus is that I get 2 trees from each seed (and more later when I take more cuttings from the cuttings). This may not be of interest if you can get plenty of seed but our quarantine is strict and JBP seed is often quite hard to obtain.
 

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Fonz

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January is mid summer down here. Seedlings are growing strong - as long as I can keep the water up to them in 40+C heat most days at the moment, 44C yesterday and 43 today.

Seedlings that are still in the seed tray are now up to 4" tall.
View attachment 223751
The larger ones that were potted on are also the same height.
View attachment 223758
All have had liquid fertiliser weekly.

To get taper into the trunks I want low branches for sacrifice branches but JBP are very apically dominant and don't make many low branches unless I force them to. I trim the taller seedlings down to just a few needles. the others will get done when they are a little taller.
View attachment 223752
View attachment 223759

New shoots will grow from the axils very quickly at this time of year. Trimming now may slow growth rates a little but the long term results are more than worth the setback IMHO.

I see lots of people making seedling cuttings - cut the roots completely off and root the top as a cutting. This is supposed to give better nebari than the original seedling. I tried this for a few years but results were very variable - some good, most no better than the original seedling. Might be my technique but not worth the time and effort for me.

After I started to trim the seedlings a few years ago I realised that juvenile pine material can root quite well and I now have plenty of juvenile growth JBP material available.
View attachment 223753

I now make cuttings with the bits I trim off.
View attachment 223754
View attachment 223755
View attachment 223756

Strike rate for these is close to 100%. Roots are still variable but many do have good 360 deg roots. The bonus is that I get 2 trees from each seed (and more later when I take more cuttings from the cuttings). This may not be of interest if you can get plenty of seed but our quarantine is strict and JBP seed is often quite hard to obtain.
Now that's an approach that hasn't been tried before in this contest. I could have gotten 300 seedlings instaed of the 150 I have now :)

Keep up the good work!
 
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Now that's an approach that hasn't been tried before in this contest. I could have gotten 300 seedlings instaed of the 150 I have now :)

Keep up the good work!
I did just that, in this contest. For the same reasons ;-)
Good luck with them @Shibui !
 

Anthony

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The other side of the coin -

[1 ] Shibui has plenty of space and can do as he wishes.

[2] The 4th / 5th year uses 12 inch x 6 inch pots [ 30.5 cm x 15 cm ]
and lots of growing space if you want the 30 inch [ 1 m ] extensions.

Hah hah, we are already on overload. And no real unterest in mame'.

However - more power to Shibui :cool::cool::cool:
Envy, envy.................
Good Day
Anthony
 

Ryceman3

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@Shibui ... I’ve been meaning to get around to making some cuttings using your above technique (inspired by your previous posts on Ausbonsai), but work/life have got in the way. Am I too late? My pines are a little bigger than yours (planted earlier) and most are now pushing mature “adult” needles along the trunk length and probably 120mm (5in) plus in height. Is it possible to still treat them as cuttings when this is the case? Sorry, no photos - need to update my thread here with some too but hopefully the text is enough! Also hope the weather calms down a bit up in your neck of the woods... hot summer so far! ??
 

Shibui

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A couple of these had a few adult needles. I don't think it will be a problem. They are still quite juvenile so should strike given the opportunity.
At worst you will have a shortened seedling with potential lateral branches quite low but no second tree - not really a problem I think given the number of seedlings you have germinated - see reply from Anthony above.
 

Shibui

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Those first summer cuttings have grown roots. No sign of top growth
P1210265.JPG
but there are roots growing out the bottom of the pot which obviously means that at least some of these are ready to pot up.
P1210266.JPG
Plenty of good root growth on most of these cuttings
P1210267.JPG

Roots have already started to ramify on some and they were potted up without cutting the roots, just gently spreading the existing roots to give a more horizontal root spread. It is this good lateral root system all growing from the same place that I'm looking for when making pine cuttings rather than just to get extra pines.

P1210270.JPG

Most I root pruned to encourage more laterals.
P1210268.JPG
P1210270.JPG

12 rooted cuttings potted into 11cm (4") squat pots
P1210272.JPG

7 have not grown roots. 1 looks like it will not make it but a couple more have tiny roots just starting so they have all gone back into cutting mix and back to the propagation bed under mist.
P1210271.JPG
 

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Shibui

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Start of winter update.
Unpruned seedlings are now around 5" tall.
P1210829.JPG
Early pruned seedling have produced plenty of new, compact shoots near the top of the stems.
P1210830.JPG
Seedlings that were not pricked out into individual pots were also pruned to stimulate low shoots. Less growth than the ones transferred to pots despite not having roots pruned.
P1210832.JPG
Cuttings still haven't grown much. They should take off in spring.
P1210833.JPG
 
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