Shimpaku Juniper 1st styling!!

[D'Angelo]

Here are some before and after pics of my shimpaku, this is her first styling and has a ways to go. I could not decide what should be the front so I styled it with 3 fronts, which should be the front?....keep in mind...I know the branches towards the top need to come in a bit, as the pads fill in..I will shorten them.

 

[Vance Wood]

I love where you are headed with this tree. I hope at some point in the future you decide on a better pot, this one is dreadful for this tree.

 

[Dirty Nails]

IMHO

#3 looks like the tree is moving away from you, so that's not good.

I think if you rotated it so it is half way between #1 and #2 and next repot tilt the whole thing forward a little bit. It is the second trunk that makes it tricky. It has crazy movement but in #1 it is distracting and kind of phallic. Like any interesting phallus you don't want to hide it but you don't want to point it at people either.

 

[D'Angelo]

I love where you are headed with this tree. I hope at some point in the future you decide on a better pot, this one is dreadful for this tree.

Thanks....The pot is dreadful, but it came with the tree when I acquired it......will change out when its time to re-pot!!

 

[D'Angelo]

IMHO

#3 looks like the tree is moving away from you, so that's not good.

I think if you rotated it so it is half way between #1 and #2 and next repot tilt the whole thing forward a little bit. It is the second trunk that makes it tricky. It has crazy movement but in #1 it is distracting and kind of phallic. Like any interesting phallus you don't want to hide it but you don't want to point it at people either.

Actually...I did re-position the tree in the pot, it was leaning way to much as you can see in the first pic of the before pictures.

 

[october]

Looks really good. In my opinion, pic 2 has the best look and should be the front. It has the best base, good taper and a very pleasing trunk like. What ever front you chose, you will need to wire down both the left and right branches of the apex. As you follow a tree up the trunk, the pads sit closer together. As you near the top, the pads are almost sitting on top of each other, with little space.

Rob

 

[Vance Wood]

Here are some before and after pics of my shimpaku, this is her first styling and has a ways to go. I could not decide what should be the front so I styled it with 3 fronts, which should be the front?....keep in mind...I know the branches towards the top need to come in a bit, as the pads fill in..I will shorten them.

View attachment 39050
View attachment 39047View attachment 39048View attachment 39049

If you are looking for detailed suggestions here comes my two pennies worth.

1.) An argument can be, and has been made about the twisted bottom branch. At this point the best thing I believe should be done is to leave it alone until some other things are addressed starting from the top of the tree. You most likely will remove the branch but you will have much better options with dead wood if the branch is allowed to grow bigger and put on more girth.

2.) The crown or top of the tree. You are correct in making the top a rounded crown. Old trees do not in general have pointed apexes, their apexes are rounded. However your crown needs to be opened up by wiring down some of the interior branches. You also need to start studying the processes of how to control the growth on a Shimpaku Juniper, in order to keep your design where you want it. At which point I am loath to use the term pinching because there are those who have put a bad name on pinching-----blah--blah---blah so on and so forth. More on this latter.

3.) The only real problem I have with your tree is the two branches just below the crown of your tree. These two branches are right across from each other and create an element we call a bar branch. Your rules, my rules, traditional rules, no bodie's rules can look at a bar branch and find it acceptable. What happens with a bar branch element is that you create a visual point that will always call the viewer's attention first, regardless of how well the rest of the tree is designed your tree will stand like a scare crow in a corn field with this element intact. This element has to be resolved.

We should discuss this as this post progresses. I will be happy at this point if you recognize these things and start thinking about them. A lot of these things don't just go away, they need to have you do something about them. I am going to be curious to hear your ideas on solving this problem as well as the suggestions of others.

 

[Poink88]

I'd probably start design consideration from one of these...

View attachment 39164 View attachment 39165

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I'd probably start design consideration from one of these...

View attachment 39164

This design includes:
Primary branches are bar branches,
primary branch emerging from the back (if this is the intended front)
next branch emerging from the inside of a curve,
removal of the branch with the most character on the tree.

I know you only asked for thoughts on the front, but my $.02. You have decent stock, you've spread out the branches, now keep the crown thinner by trimming back "runners", and thinning dense areas(check out Peter Tea's last post) which should result in some back-budding. Some of the upper branches are a little heavy, with foliage out on the ends, but don't be in a hurry to remove much more, you'll be able to move them around, or replace them with new growth over time. If anything, start playing around with the idea of reducing the apex, and working with everything below it; could be very sweet.

I have found that you'll end up with a better bonsai if you can use more of the tree, taking your time to incorporate it's best features, and ensuring you remove those features that detract from the design.

 

[Poink88]

BTW, the lower curly trunk (or separate tree?) should be saved if you decide to remove it. I think it will make a nice bonsai by itself.

 

[tmmason10]

I also think front #2 is the best, and it won't take long to have this tree looking really good. Agreed with the others about tending to the apex it looks too topiary right now.

 

[D'Angelo]

A special thanks to everyone for your input, advice and critique. I will take everything I heard here and take it into consideration, but I think I will sit back on this one and study the tree. The smaller trunk is a problem, I would like to keep it if i can incorporate it into the overall design...however, I am also open to removing it or treating it as some dead wood. The apex branches were brought down a bit, but I want it to have a round top, not a point, so I will leave as is. The secondary (Bar) branches do present a distraction when viewed from certain angles, however..this can be fixed by hiding where they meet with some foliage and changing the branches to different heights. I will also chase these branches back to proper size when they start filling in with foliage. Again!!...TY for all the input and I will update as to the progress of this tree

 

[october]

Hello D'Angelo, I will not try to change your mind about the apex. However, I will present something to you that is very important for the health of the tree. Leaving the apex like this might make it difficult to manage. Since all the foliage is coming up from branches pointed up. This means to keep this look, you might have to cut in places that you normally would not. You can only cut back to cetain points so often before the foliage in that area is compromised. From a horticulticultural view, pulling those side branches down will allow the spaces to fill in with foliage. Hence, creatign a beautifully structured crown. This in turn will give you the ease of doing proper maintenance pruning each year.

Since I am saying all this, I thought I would provide some pictures. Both in virt form and real life. The fist virt pic shows your current apex. You can see that to keep this, you are going to have to keep pruning the top. However, repeated cuttign back in this area may lead to the apex dying in some spots. The other parts of the virt show how wiring down and waiting a season or 2, the foliage will fill in and create a nice rounded apex. The next too pics are live examples of what I am talking about. Notice the pointed young apex in training. Now, the next pic was taken later in that season or maybe the next. So in one season, the crown has matured and is now a healthy, round apex that requires only minimal maintenance pruning.

Just something to think about.

Rob

 

[D'Angelo]

Hello D'Angelo, I will not try to change your mind about the apex. However, I will present somethign to you that is very important for the health of the tree. Leaving the apex like this might make it difficult to manage. Since all the foliage is coming up from branches pointed up. This means to keep this look, you might have to cut in places that you normally would not. You can only cut back to cetain points so often before the foliage in that area is compromised. From a horticulticultural view, pulling those side branches down will allow the spaces to fill in with foliage. Hence, creatign a beautifully structured crown. This in turn will give you the ease of doing proper maintenance pruning each year.

Since I am saying all this, I thought I would provide some pictures. Both in virt form and real life. The fist virt pic shows your current apex. You can see that to keep this, you are going to have to keep pruning the top. However, repeated cuttign back in this area may lead to the apex dying in some spots. The other parts of the virt show how wiring down and waiting a season or 2, the foliage will fill in and create a nice rounded apex. The next too pics are live examples of what I am talking about. Notice the pointed young apex in training. Now, the next pic was taken later in that season or maybe the next. So in one season, the crown has matured and is now a healthy, round apex that requires only minimal maintenance pruning.

Just something to think about.

Rob

Thank you Rob for your victuals and advice, I have already made the apex like the one in your pictures, I pulled the branches down and refined it. as for the rest of the tree, I will not rush it!!...BTW...is that your Juniper?...if so...very nice!!

 

[october]

Thank you Rob for your victuals and advice, I have already made the apex like the one in your pictures, I pulled the branches down and refined it. as for the rest of the tree, I will not rush it!!...BTW...is that your Juniper?...if so...very nice!!

Yes, it is my juniper.

Rob

 

[tmmason10]

Did you pull the apex branches down after these pictures? I still agree with Robs virt and can see the twigs that are going straight up in the apex. I think if you wired those smaller branches in the apex and pulled them down a bit you would see a huge difference.

Eithe way it's a nice tree, and judging by your other topics you are building a very impressive collection.

 

[D'Angelo]

Did you pull the apex branches down after these pictures? I still agree with Robs virt and can see the twigs that are going straight up in the apex. I think if you wired those smaller branches in the apex and pulled them down a bit you would see a huge difference.

Eithe way it's a nice tree, and judging by your other topics you are building a very impressive collection.

Yes..the other branches were wired down after these pics were posted, and Ty...but my collection is much smaller than when I was into bonsai years ago. The amount I have now is manageable (15) mostly Specimen trees.

 

[Vance Wood]

I would like to see the most current photo of this tree. Personally I would resist any suggestions to cut this tree down into a smaller tree. There is something compelling with the taller graceful design you have been working on. Other than the flaws I pointed out earlier about the bar branch I believe this tree can be made into a really nice Penjing like bonsai with very little effort. A good bonsai should be somewhat unique as this one will be. To kind of quote Yogi Berra: "When you come to a fork in the road take it". This tree is kind of a fork in the road. This tree just needs to be pulled into a more mature looking design I personally would avoid trying to make it into something that does not sing to you at this point.

 

[tmmason10]

Yes..the other branches were wired down after these pics were posted, and Ty...but my collection is much smaller than when I was into bonsai years ago. The amount I have now is manageable (15) mostly Specimen trees.

No "buts" needed, quality over quantity is the best way to go. You've done quite well in less than a year back.

 

[D'Angelo]

Ok...with the help of all your input, I think I am leaning towards a Penjing design ( if I can separate the smaller tree from the parent tree successfully) with some accent rocks and plants. The following is a quick sketch, though the rocks and plants are not in the drawing, I think you can kinda get the idea. now...should this be done on a slab or a pot?