Shishigashira trunk looks strange. Advice on scrapping and starting over.

[canoeanu]

I bought a shishi a while back. The first undertaking I wanted to go after was a serious root pruning and replanting. I planted it in a barrel container with good draining soil over a tile to start encouraging a good root structure while thickening the trunk at the time time. Frankly, I probably should have thought about my long term plan before all of that. The shishi was placed in one spot in my entire garden that gets morning sun and afternoon shade. It rebounded quickly from the root pruning and did wonderfully. After that, the only pruning I did was limiting the canopy. Then we had to do major construction on the house. The barrel got moved and couldn't be moved back for months - poor guy got dry and sun scorched. I'm pretty sure there is some die back because of it.

Now, its about a year and a half since I first got it and I was thinking about my first pruning steps. At first I thought about doing a multi trunk bonsai but when I look at the trunk, it just all wrong to me. First, I can't tell if these branches were grafted on and thats why it looks so awkward. From one angle it does and another it doesn't. Second, the branches are creating an inverse taper at the trunk line. I have no idea why its pinching in that way rather than bulging. 3) There was actually four branches right before I took this picture - 3 thin ones and 1 thicc guy. I accidentally snapped one off and noticed there was die-back on half the branch. It kept living on half the branch...also why I think I'm seeing all sorts of activity lower on the branch.

Right now I'm debating two options: 1) Airlayer the two smaller branches after the first leaves harden off, leaving the thick branch as a the leader. 2) Airlayer all three of them and start from scratch.
What are your thoughts?

 

[BonsaiNaga13]

I'd air layer all 3. Actually considering getting a shishi soon myself.

 

[BonjourBonsai]

I'd air layer all

Agree. The main trunk below is kind of ugly. Layer three new trees off the top and see if the bottom is a hardier root stock or a shishi. I suspect it's not the same.

 

[BonsaiNaga13]

I actually see a few prime layers on this tree. Starting at the branch junction at the top for a twin trunk and the two sides. Developers the layers and use this as a parent tree for more layers if possible

 

[canoeanu]

I actually see a few prime layers on this tree. Starting at the branch junction at the top for a twin trunk and the two sides. Developers the layers and use this as a parent tree for more layers if possible

You know I was thinking the same thing! I was going to try my hand at airlayering the two smaller branches first. Wait for them to root and separate. Then the place you marked. Then again lower on the branch to get four specimens. More to play with.

I really didn't know how many airlayers I could successfully produce at the same time much less on the same branch.

 

[Shibui]

The dead parts on the 2 thinner trunks is probably caused by sunburn. It could heal up if the tree can grow fast enough before the inner wood rots but it is probably better to start again.
The layer/s will do for start again but the remaining trunk should also sprout new shoots after the layers are removed so you could also try again with the lower part or just use it as a source of future propagating material.

The trunk was probably grafted. The odd bend opposite the hollow is typical of grafted maples. All the branches probably come from the same graft, they have just chosen to shoot from the base of the scion that was grafted on.

Note the stiff, straight growth habit of shishigashira. If you just want a quick bonsai you can let it grow like this one is - straight trunks with little taper and branches at odd angles.
To get a good bonsai it is necessary to grow and prune regularly to get bends and taper in the trunks and branches and to wire branches or regrow them to get pleasing branch angles. The small leaves of shishi are attractive but the growth habit makes for slow development of trunks and branching.

 

[canoeanu]

The dead parts on the 2 thinner trunks is probably caused by sunburn. It could heal up if the tree can grow fast enough before the inner wood rots but it is probably better to start again.
The layer/s will do for start again but the remaining trunk should also sprout new shoots after the layers are removed so you could also try again with the lower part or just use it as a source of future propagating material.

The trunk was probably grafted. The odd bend opposite the hollow is typical of grafted maples. All the branches probably come from the same graft, they have just chosen to shoot from the base of the scion that was grafted on.

Note the stiff, straight growth habit of shishigashira. If you just want a quick bonsai you can let it grow like this one is - straight trunks with little taper and branches at odd angles.
To get a good bonsai it is necessary to grow and prune regularly to get bends and taper in the trunks and branches and to wire branches or regrow them to get pleasing branch angles. The small leaves of shishi are attractive but the growth habit makes for slow development of trunks and branching.

Thank you for this thoughtful reply. I really love this site. I don't use it often but I'm pretty amazed. I knew most of this information before today but the juxtaposition between your comment and others had opened my eyes to a completely new strategy.

I initially grew this in a large container over tile so that I could get rapid thickening of the trunk. I knew shishis are a lifelong investment but I thought I could get a little bit more a touch faster. I had not considered the impact on it's linear verticle growth, which I knew about. I really was going to wait a couple years and then make some decisions. I really feel compelled to start over. Get a good healthy root structure, plant over tile and make frequently pruning decisions. Thanks so much.

 

[River's Edge]

Thank you for this thoughtful reply. I really love this site. I don't use it often but I'm pretty amazed. I knew most of this information before today but the juxtaposition between your comment and others had opened my eyes to a completely new strategy.

I initially grew this in a large container over tile so that I could get rapid thickening of the trunk. I knew shishis are a lifelong investment but I thought I could get a little bit more a touch faster. I had not considered the impact on it's linear verticle growth, which I knew about. I really was going to wait a couple years and then make some decisions. I really feel compelled to start over. Get a good healthy root structure, plant over tile and make frequently pruning decisions. Thanks so much.

Air layer thicker sections, then cut back and develop new leader, repeat. Begin by developing the proper foundation, nebari and trunk! Otherwise you will always be starting over, or settling for something less. Shishigara characteristics make it more difficult to start with due to the straight sections and brittle nature of the wood.
One of the advantages is the ability to easily thread graft with the proper technique. So in this respect you can first develop nebari and trunk with taper and movement and then place the branches where you want if any are missing. Or even if there are none on the lower portion chosen! It is not necessary to use a tile, simple corrective root pruning and repotting techniques can develop strong stable bases. This is not the finest example but will illustrate my comments.

 

[canoeanu]

Wanted to post an update. My shishi was successfully airlayered this year. I agree with everything here. They grow too straight and really need lots of frequent cuts to create some movement. Really looking forward to starting over.

 

[yodamon]

You know I was thinking the same thing! I was going to try my hand at airlayering the two smaller branches first. Wait for them to root and separate. Then the place you marked. Then again lower on the branch to get four specimens. More to play with.

I really didn't know how many airlayers I could successfully produce at the same time much less on the same branch.

Hopefully you are more successful at air layering that I was this last spring/summer. I started with 5 on 3 different trees and only one successfully rooted. Given those odds.......

 

[hinmo24t]

I'd air layer all 3. Actually considering getting a shishi soon myself.

do you know if you can air layer 3 at same time on a tree like that with success for all 3 and the entire plants chance of success?

 

[canoeanu]

do you know if you can air layer 3 at same time on a tree like that with success for all 3 and the entire plants chance of success?

I didn't try. I went for the main trunk and left the branches for another time. I figured the two branches with their leaves were insurance the tree would live.

The main trunk successfully air layered. I see the roots. I'm leaving the sphagnum on there until the roots are thicker. Want to give the greatest chance for success before cutting the umbilical cord.