Shishigashira worth purchasing?

Jphipps

Mame
Messages
174
Reaction score
178
Location
Washington State
USDA Zone
8a
I came across this Acer Palmatum Shishigashira. I was contemplating purchasing it. My concern is that the main branches coming off of the trunk are too thick and don't have the right ramification. Would this tree be worth giving it a go, or better to pass? If yes, any insight into design and where you would chop it? I like the curve at the lower trunk and cant tell whatsoever where it was grafted. If I bought it, I would first try to take air layers off of it next year, and then chop later.
 

Attachments

  • IMAG1257.jpg
    IMAG1257.jpg
    441.3 KB · Views: 245

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,908
Reaction score
45,579
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
I'd chop it in that bright green section. 3-5 inches of sub trunk depending on the thickness.

Those sub trunk look near perfect for a natural maple in short order.

Above is worth it to ground layer of you had to IMO.

Price? Like 200-300 I seen em for.

Sorce
 

Jphipps

Mame
Messages
174
Reaction score
178
Location
Washington State
USDA Zone
8a
$300, but I wouldn't buy it unless I could get it closer to $250. That's still a big maybe. This was the best picture I took, unfortunately. The base actually kind of flares out a little, but no amazing nebari. Sorce, were you referring to the beginning of the green section all the way to the right? Any idea how you would handle the other primary branches coming off the trunk. The center area seems tricky. Thanks for the replies. I'm really debating this one.
 

Stickroot

Masterpiece
Messages
2,539
Reaction score
5,158
Location
Mid MO
USDA Zone
5
I suspect there is a good tree in there. If the root base is good I'd consider it. Most if not all of the branches will need to be remade, so I wouldn't worry about them. The question is how much are they asking for the tree.
There is a lot of good trees in that. I would pay $400 for it and air layer the TREES of of that thing and have a nice project left!
Can I get that?
Omeishi or meishi?
 

Stickroot

Masterpiece
Messages
2,539
Reaction score
5,158
Location
Mid MO
USDA Zone
5
$300, but I wouldn't buy it unless I could get it closer to $250. That's still a big maybe. This was the best picture I took, unfortunately. The base actually kind of flares out a little, but no amazing nebari. Sorce, were you referring to the beginning of the green section all the way to the right? Any idea how you would handle the other primary branches coming off the trunk. The center area seems tricky. Thanks for the replies. I'm really debating this one.
There is some Nebari under there.
 

Jphipps

Mame
Messages
174
Reaction score
178
Location
Washington State
USDA Zone
8a
Haha. Thanks for the reply Stickroot. You seem more excited than I am! But I'm not sure what Omeishi and Meishi means...
 

Stickroot

Masterpiece
Messages
2,539
Reaction score
5,158
Location
Mid MO
USDA Zone
5
Haha. Thanks for the reply Stickroot. You seem more excited than I am! But I'm not sure what Omeishi and Meishi means...
Male or female
Omeishi male is thicker foliage
 

Jphipps

Mame
Messages
174
Reaction score
178
Location
Washington State
USDA Zone
8a
The foliage was definitely in really tight clumps. There were typically 5-7 or more leaves packed together coming off of the end of each of the smallest branches. The leaves themselves were very very thin and curled in. Not sure if that answers your question.
 

Alain

Omono
Messages
1,355
Reaction score
1,073
Location
Niles, IL
USDA Zone
5b
Wow, $300 (or even 250) I don't think I'll go for that...Even if you air-layer the branches they seem pretty straight and monotonous to me (but that may be the picture). Once the branches chopped I like the start of the the trunk but then again, more than $200...I'm pretty sure you could find a really nice (or may be a really nice couple of dozen :) ) tree for that price!
 

Stickroot

Masterpiece
Messages
2,539
Reaction score
5,158
Location
Mid MO
USDA Zone
5
Iseli nursery in Oregon sell both male and female strains. Omeishi and Meishi
Sooooo???
 

0soyoung

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,496
Reaction score
12,832
Location
Anacortes, WA (AHS heat zone 1)
USDA Zone
8b
There are many cultivars with small leafs and short internodes, but shishi is among the very best. For the caliper I'm guessing you are showing, about $300 would be a fair price. You won't be using any of those branches in your bonsai, so you might air layer them next season if you are concerned about cost. Regardless, a good bonsai is more than 5 years away - a fun 5+years!
 

Jphipps

Mame
Messages
174
Reaction score
178
Location
Washington State
USDA Zone
8a
Thanks for the replies. I looked at that site, and this one is definitely a Shishigashira. The Ojishi is very similar but the leaves aren't as curled. So, it seems this one would be a Meishi. (I'm assuming Ojishi and Omeishi are the same thing).

There are several straight branches coming out of the top. The higher you go, the more interesting it becomes. One area is very interesting for an air layer. If it took, it would be a twin trunk with some interest not far above it.

Should I be concerned about the amount of scarring that would be left after removing the large branches off of the main lower trunk? How I'm looking at it, it would seem like several trunk chops compared to the typical 1.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,908
Reaction score
45,579
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Sorce, were you referring to the beginning of the green section

I meant the greenest section of the entire picture.:confused: IMAG1257~2.jpg

I would chop it in here. Except leave more of the main trunk. And a little less of the smalls.

I would keep them all till you get branches in them, then maybe cut 1-3 off completely.

You get a nice Nebari on 3-4 of the layers, sell em for 50. That's a 100$ tree. Well worth it!

Sorce
 

johng

Omono
Messages
1,932
Reaction score
3,727
I bought a similar sized grafted nursery shishi for $100.... my sole purpose is to use it for airlayers...I put in the ground. I just did it this spring and so far I don't think it likes the heat and humidity of SC very well.

The better question might be will that tree even do well in a container in Fla??? Lots of folks have reported that J. Maples can be a little hard to get to thrive in that region.

If the tree is not grafted, or grafted so well not to be noticed...that price is more than fair! A few airlayers and 10 years and you will have 10x your investment in hard to source (shishi on their own roots) trees. Develop as many as you can, keep the best and sell the rest:)
 

BethF

Mame
Messages
194
Reaction score
207
Location
Lexington SC
I agree, the tree has potential. It's especially nice that you cannot see the graft. Awkward grafting makes a lot of this cultivar unsuitable for bonsai. You have to be patient with these trees; they grow slowly. Chop back, except for what you want to try and air layer, then see what grows. Next spring put it in a big grow flat. The tree, along with your styling techniques, will show what it wants to become. To achieve ramification, allow the spring shoots to grow out, then remove the leaves that are not growing in the direction where you would like to have secondary branches. Usually those growing up or down. This will encourage the growth of the secondary branches. But, leave a downward growing shoot that is placed at the end of a branch, because when it extends, it will probably do so in a way that will add movement to the branch. I think the asking price is in line with what is usually charged for this cultivar.
 
Messages
1,077
Reaction score
1,279
Location
Germantown, TN
USDA Zone
7b
Curious what time of the year is good to air layer or chop one of these. There are a couple at my local nursery that have a lot of potential, but i know bupkis about them otherthan they look niiice. Not to hijack the thread, it seems on topic for sure.
 
Top Bottom