Shohin Buckthorn

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Hey y’all,

So I was walking the yard a few weeks ago and spotted a young buckthorn growing under a landscape tree. I yanked it out of the ground because I didn’t want a buckthorn growing in my yard, and since it was just before bud break I decided what the heck, throw it in a pot.
Here it is about 4 weeks after being potted
image.jpg
It’s been doing pretty well, but I’m unsure of what kind of fertilizing strategy is appropriate for Shohin/Mame pots. Should I take a similar approach to my other deciduous trees or should I do more/less since the pot is incredibly tiny?
 

Bonsai Nut

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I clicked on this thread because I didn't know what a buckthorn was :)

...and in Naperville of all places! I grew up in St. Charles :)

Right now it is too early to comment on much other than - grats on not killing it! My only other point - make sure you wire your apex to the right to balance your design.
 

sorce

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I regularly forget Haines is from here!

I had one that died during a season I was practicing over chem ferting.

Don't know if it's related, I suspect it may be, since I have read @Leo in N E Illinois suggest Myc may be a necessity.

That said, my Beaver Moon one dug in October, I left some soil for much, it was snowed on 2 days later, woke up early and is banging out now, only fish.

I've only ferted it maybe 3 times with a small dose oh high fish concentrate. Old, in the hot sitting, stank yum fish.

It's always a safe and healthy bet.

Sorce
 

sorce

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I'm starting to wonder if we can't find the correlation between, "hard to keep" species, and excessive chemfert killing their myc.

Since not everyone claims them hard.

And not everyone uses chemfert.

Sorce
 

Woocash

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I clicked on this thread because I didn't know what a buckthorn was :)

...and in Naperville of all places! I grew up in St. Charles :)

Right now it is too early to comment on much other than - grats on not killing it! My only other point - make sure you wire your apex to the right to balance your design.
One of the reserves where we live is called Buckthorn Nature Reserve because there are so many here and I’d not heard of them until we came here a couple of years ago either. Now I seem to spot them all over the place.

They seem like really cool candidates for bonsai too. Nice craggy bark, compact growth, make good hedges, leaves not too big, late flowering and jet black berries. Definitely on the coming winter’s dig list.
 

sorce

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One of the reserves where we live is called Buckthorn Nature Reserve because there are so many here and I’d not heard of them until we came here a couple of years ago either. Now I seem to spot them all over the place.

They seem like really cool candidates for bonsai too. Nice craggy bark, compact growth, make good hedges, leaves not too big, late flowering and jet black berries. Definitely on the coming winter’s dig list.
Somewhere here, I have pictures of....

A 30 or 40ft one with a trunk you can barely hug and touch hands.
And the beautiful ramification and subsequent tiny leaves of another.

The are seemingly fantastic.

We need to focus on what "good care" means for them.

I had many small ones that were collected in leaf, that died with later spring repotting.
And the one I collected before spring leafed out and died.

Note the rather confusing black roots. They are alive, and brittle ish.

Sorce
 
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I like this idea.. and had a similar one recently, as well.

I have a pic somewhere....

994AA8B8-E422-47FF-B57B-FB2A190DA218.jpeg

I haven’t done any “work” yet...

It’s just ‘laxin’.
 

Woocash

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Somewhere here, I have pictures of....

A 30 or 40ft one with a trunk you can barely hug and touch hands.
And the beautiful ramification and subsequent tiny leaves of another.

The are seemingly fantastic.

We need to focus on what "good care" means for them.

I had many small ones that were collected in leaf, that died with later spring repotting.
And the one I collected before spring leafed out and died.

Note the rather confusing black roots. They are alive, and brittle ish.

Sorce
Wow! Ive not seen any that big. Was that a rhamnus cathartica? That’s the native one here. Purging Buckthorn is the common name. My dog ate a couple of berries when they fell and he purged right out his backside in double quick time!

I think because they’re one of the last to leaf out they should probably be one of the last ones to collect as well. At least in the UK. Aftercare I’m not so sure though.
 

Eckhoffw

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Heck yeah! Go team invasive!

It’s hard not to notice these scrubs are everywhere!
Love the idea of making something cool out of these trouble makers.

I have 2 I dug out of the alley this spring before bud break. Hacked them down, butchered the roots.
I keep plucking off the suckers as they come up. I’m hoping that energy forces more buds on the trunk.AA0F97ED-31D6-4FF3-ABC5-8E4888D874FF.jpeg
 
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Heck yeah! Go team invasive!

It’s hard not to notice these scrubs are everywhere!
Love the idea of making something cool out of these trouble makers.

I have 2 I dug out of the alley this spring before bud break. Hacked them down, butchered the roots.
I keep plucking off the suckers as they come up. I’m hoping that energy forces more buds on the trunk.View attachment 305094
I always end up admiring a plant in the wild, then when identifying said specimen, it turns out to be invasive.

“...I thought it looked aggressive.... i’ll container it.... that’ll show ‘em”

😆😆😆
 

sorce

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rhamnus cathartica?
Yes. I think it was one of the first planted here. In a park, it was protected, and probably not thought of when it was realized they are "invasive". So it managed some size.

The only one I ever had up and die for no seeming reason was in a pond basket. So if it declines, you may want to consider a different pot.

Nice!

Some of the ones in a forgotten section of forest preserve I recently found, have nice "muscular" bases and root systems. Lotta interest in a small space.

Sorce
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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A tidbit of history, buckthorn, Rhamus cathartica, is wildly invasive in midwestern USA forests and prairies. Where it gets a toe hold, in a short decade or two it can convert a tall grass prairie patch into a desolate mono-culture of nothing but buckthorn. In Europe, the UK and its native areas, it is reasonably well behaved. The reason it seems to be so invasive in USA is that it partnered with a different mycorrhiza species than it normally does in the EU. The new relationship is hugely beneficial to buckthorn at the expense of surrounding vegetation. Many of the prairie remnants in Illinois and Wisconsin have been destroyed or severely damaged by being over-run by buckthorn. Prairie restoration groups, "friend's of the Prairie" etc have monthly work days where most of the year they are focused on removing invasive species, mainly buckthorn, garlic mustard and autumn olive.

The phenomena of pairing with different mycorrhiza species conferring extra vigor and invasiveness has occurred a number of times. Buckthorn, Oriental Bittersweet, Autumn Olive all seem to get their "extra vigor" from pairing with local mycorrhiza that are not found in their native ranges. The ability to be less selective in choice of mycorrhiza in one of the hallmarks that identifies species as being potentially invasive.

Buckthorn was introduced to the USA by Dr. John Kennicott who settled in Glenview IL, in 1836. In 1856 the now prospering Dr. Kennicott built his "big house" the one that currently is being restored by the Glenview Park District. Dr. Kennicott missed his homeland Scotland and sometime around 1860 imported the first living buckthorn into the USA to plant on his property in Glenview IL. So it was a damn Scotsman that unleashed this vegetable scourge upon North America, and he let it loose in Glenview, the north suburbs of Chicago.

So now you know everything I know about buckthorn as bonsai. I have never tried it for bonsai because I can't stand looking at it. I have spent a fair number of work days volunteering at Chiwaukee prairie, and other prairies, ripping out buckthorn, and really can not stand looking at it.

Using invasive species for bonsai is a good thing, as we tend to kill a lot of our early attempts. Anything that leads to a shortened life span for buckthorn is good in my book.
 
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My thought process when root pruning to fit it in the pot was “if I kill it, there are 1000 more within 500 feet” I live across from a forest preserve and there are so many of these damn things. Every year there are a ton I have to pull from my yard.
 
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A tidbit of history, buckthorn, Rhamus cathartica, is wildly invasive in midwestern USA forests and prairies. Where it gets a toe hold, in a short decade or two it can convert a tall grass prairie patch into a desolate mono-culture of nothing but buckthorn. In Europe, the UK and its native areas, it is reasonably well behaved. The reason it seems to be so invasive in USA is that it partnered with a different mycorrhiza species than it normally does in the EU. The new relationship is hugely beneficial to buckthorn at the expense of surrounding vegetation. Many of the prairie remnants in Illinois and Wisconsin have been destroyed or severely damaged by being over-run by buckthorn. Prairie restoration groups, "friend's of the Prairie" etc have monthly work days where most of the year they are focused on removing invasive species, mainly buckthorn, garlic mustard and autumn olive.

The phenomena of pairing with different mycorrhiza species conferring extra vigor and invasiveness has occurred a number of times. Buckthorn, Oriental Bittersweet, Autumn Olive all seem to get their "extra vigor" from pairing with local mycorrhiza that are not found in their native ranges. The ability to be less selective in choice of mycorrhiza in one of the hallmarks that identifies species as being potentially invasive.

Buckthorn was introduced to the USA by Dr. John Kennicott who settled in Glenview IL, in 1836. In 1856 the now prospering Dr. Kennicott built his "big house" the one that currently is being restored by the Glenview Park District. Dr. Kennicott missed his homeland Scotland and sometime around 1860 imported the first living buckthorn into the USA to plant on his property in Glenview IL. So it was a damn Scotsman that unleashed this vegetable scourge upon North America, and he let it loose in Glenview, the north suburbs of Chicago.

So now you know everything I know about buckthorn as bonsai. I have never tried it for bonsai because I can't stand looking at it. I have spent a fair number of work days volunteering at Chiwaukee prairie, and other prairies, ripping out buckthorn, and really can not stand looking at it.

Using invasive species for bonsai is a good thing, as we tend to kill a lot of our early attempts. Anything that leads to a shortened life span for buckthorn is good in my book.
Yes! Tasty information. I could NEVER get enough.

I knew of their aggression.. but not of the fact that newly cultivated fungal relationships whilst “pioneering” where the cause of the vigor which essentially DETERNINE it as “Hostile take-over material”.....“oops”ed ourselves into a negatively-tuned mobius relationship with buckthorn.

Uhg! The Monday-Morning Quarterback wins the Hindsight Bowl.

;)
 

Woocash

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A tidbit of history, buckthorn, Rhamus cathartica, is wildly invasive in midwestern USA forests and prairies. Where it gets a toe hold, in a short decade or two it can convert a tall grass prairie patch into a desolate mono-culture of nothing but buckthorn. In Europe, the UK and its native areas, it is reasonably well behaved. The reason it seems to be so invasive in USA is that it partnered with a different mycorrhiza species than it normally does in the EU. The new relationship is hugely beneficial to buckthorn at the expense of surrounding vegetation. Many of the prairie remnants in Illinois and Wisconsin have been destroyed or severely damaged by being over-run by buckthorn. Prairie restoration groups, "friend's of the Prairie" etc have monthly work days where most of the year they are focused on removing invasive species, mainly buckthorn, garlic mustard and autumn olive.

The phenomena of pairing with different mycorrhiza species conferring extra vigor and invasiveness has occurred a number of times. Buckthorn, Oriental Bittersweet, Autumn Olive all seem to get their "extra vigor" from pairing with local mycorrhiza that are not found in their native ranges. The ability to be less selective in choice of mycorrhiza in one of the hallmarks that identifies species as being potentially invasive.

Buckthorn was introduced to the USA by Dr. John Kennicott who settled in Glenview IL, in 1836. In 1856 the now prospering Dr. Kennicott built his "big house" the one that currently is being restored by the Glenview Park District. Dr. Kennicott missed his homeland Scotland and sometime around 1860 imported the first living buckthorn into the USA to plant on his property in Glenview IL. So it was a damn Scotsman that unleashed this vegetable scourge upon North America, and he let it loose in Glenview, the north suburbs of Chicago.

So now you know everything I know about buckthorn as bonsai. I have never tried it for bonsai because I can't stand looking at it. I have spent a fair number of work days volunteering at Chiwaukee prairie, and other prairies, ripping out buckthorn, and really can not stand looking at it.

Using invasive species for bonsai is a good thing, as we tend to kill a lot of our early attempts. Anything that leads to a shortened life span for buckthorn is good in my book.
Wow thanks for that Leo. That’s crazy, I never knew it was so rampant. Does it spread by root suckers then? Ive just not seen much evidence over here of that. It’s almost like the mycorrhiza changes it’s habit too then, or at least strengthens different parts.

And those Scots always like to blame the English for everything......huh. ;)
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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@Woocash
I have not seen evidence of reproducing by root suckers. They just produce a lot of fruits, and the birds scatter the fruit everywhere. Seedlings take off and soon there is nothing else around. I believe they are like walnuts, and secrete a chemical that inhibits other species from growing near or under them. They also make dense shade, dense enough that little else can grow under them.

They might be able to produce root suckers, but I have not seen it. I'm guessing they do so no more often than an apple or maple. Occasional but not a primary mode of reproduction. I think prodigious seed is how they do it.
 
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