Neli
Omono
I dont believe hedging can make replicas, any more than a careful pruning by following the rules. The random factor is more in play with hedging that with following the "rules", and when fine tuning a tree you can take it in any direction you want.I have written exhuastivly on hedging maples here and at my blog. There is a technique to hedging and a purpose. Look up some of my wrtitten things on hedging and the trees I have posted of its results and the purpose becomes very clear. It is definately not for every tree in ones collection since hedging can make replicas of ones collection pretty fast, but to obtain the trees with the perfect canopy of ramified branches, one will have to hedge to keep it that way.
Maybe you can tell me what the advantages of hedge method are as opposed to normal trimming of individual branches,since I have failed to see them.
I agree. I do not generally advocate for this technique unless your trees need lots of development or the bonsai is weak. Although I see some advantages with the hedging method, I do not use it ever in any one tree. I like to treat each part and each branch separately. I let some shoots grow and extend quite a bit before they are cut back. Other branches I pinch the center leaves even way before they fully open. It really depends on what's needed and where. If your maple is not in good health then I leave it all to grow freely and then cut back. With the hedging method you have to be careful that areas don't thicken too much or you'll have to redo that portion of the tree. The method is great in that it promotes health and vigor in trees but caution needs to be exercised with more finished specimens.
I agree with this 100%
Also I am not so sure that the traditional method of taking out the center stem as soon as leaves are visible will necessarily weaken a tree. I have use this more "traditional" method on the entire tree on a number of maples year after year with no problems whatsoever. In fact these maples have typically responded well with back budding. The pic below is an example of it.
I also do the same pinching when trying to develop branches...I prefer to create few short internodes to which to cut back later before growing a branch freely to fatten that section...I believe you get better results in time faster.
I asked him this question:I think there is some miscommunication going on on what hedging a maple does. There is no doubt that what you have shown is a beautiful tree. It is a beautiful tree with nary any ramification. It is open, light and airy. The photo's I provided are closed tight and dense. Two very different looks and the dense canopy can only be maintained by hedging and cutting out rough material when appropriate. One does not even start hedging a maple until a well ramified set of seconadaries is provided and those have to be achieved thru hedging as well as the primaries. If you look into the canopies it is clear that each layer has been built upon the last hedged layer.
Smoke Walter advocates this:
Quote from a prior conversation with him not on IBF.
Question:
is this method used to improve on a developed tree only and not for starting from scratch? Since there is no shape to cut to. Does it mean some kind of shape needs to be developed first? Do we just allow all the shoots to extend and then shape to a bit less than the final shape of the tree...until the actual careful prune which is after two hedge trimmings in this case?
He said start doing this right from the beginning after trunk chop.
I guess I found the answer:
Link : http://walterpallbon...uction-cut.html
After the first cut which was placed as low as possible the tree will grow freely for a vegetation period. The following next cut should be as low as possible again. It is usually of advantage to place it at the opposite side of the first cut. It is also possible to develop young conifers that way as long as one takes care to always leave enough green and buds on what is left after the cut.
It is not absolutely necessary to plan exactly how the design will eventually evolve. One can just cut low and give the tree a chance to grow at random. In the next years the tree is cut like a hedge, just for silhouette, not for structure. Then after a few seasons the tree is dug up and one works it from there and selects the best from the possibilities that have developed.
The tree you have shown would not benifit from hedging due to the way the branches have been built. The hedging foundation is not there. To start that technique on that particular tree would make it look very topaiary. A hedged tree has to be started from scratch to build that type of canopy.
Again I think people get caught up on the word itself rather than the nomenclature it represents.
I dont get caught in the word...I tried to figure out how it affects a tree, and why it is done and if there is a better established method for doing it.
hedge
/hej/
noun
noun: hedge; plural noun: hedges
1.
a fence or boundary formed by closely growing bushes or shrubs.
"she was standing barefoot in a corner of the lawn, trimming the hedge"
2.
limit or qualify (something) by conditions or exceptions.
"experts usually hedge their predictions, just in case"
synonyms:
confine, restrict, limit, hinder, obstruct, impede, constrain, trap
The pertinent parts are highlighted. How you achieve that, or what you call it is up to you. It is a very different technique than bud pinching, and produces a different effect. I do both techniques when necessary to produce the effect I am looking for.
I did not mean much different from your method...I was asking can I do the growing part as You suggested but just cut each branch individually instead with shears...and back to a short node, and not to overall shape of the crown?
I repeated the question 3 times.
First time he did not answer me...just posted some pictures of nice maples.
second time he failed to answer again...
Third time he said he does not understand me....????? Really?
And after explaining my question (or problem as he called it) again...He said he is just a simple gardener...and it works...but no answer to my question.
Someone answered me...with PM... at the end that he does not understand how long internodes will not be produced with his method. And that was a professional bonsai grower with good reputation.
I respect him too...but who ever tells me I am wrong has to tell me why I am wrong for me to understand. And he failed to do that.
Now soon after he deleted my post (on his blog)....but suddenly he had a change of mind....and suddenly agreed with me publicly...on IBF...a week or so later...after telling me that it should not be done???? I think he took my post as an argument when it was a question in order to understand things better, but eventually it had an effect on him??????
That you can cut any way you like and not necessarily with hedge pruners... as long as you leave the branch to grow long>
This is a matter of taste...and I dont really want to argue.So, your saying though that you do advocate the same method... Let the tree grow out, cut it back, grow it out, cut it back... I really don't see a big difference there.
The difference is there...What I said is cut back to one or two short internode...he said to cut back to overall shape which includes lots of internodes which you will cut off at the end of the year.
The norm he was comparing his method to was pinching new buds in the early Spring which is a commonly used and taught method for Maple development. I see your point about winding up with just the one internode at the end of a growing season, but I don't believe WP's directions intend for that to happen at all with most branches. When you fine tune the tree at the end of a growing season, you might have a few branches that need to be cut back to one new internode to keep them in the shape you want or to keep the smallest internodes, but most branches will have two or even three new nodes by the end of the season if the tree is pruned properly.
I doubt that very much, I think you might have some short internodes...you will have some that you will have to cut to 0, and very few if any with 2-3-4 short internodes to which to cut to. For me the question is do you want a perfect tree or a tree done in an easy way that will develop not necessarily as fast as individually cut branches to short nodes, That is just my humble opinion...and I would like to know how a tree will develop short internodes with this method?
Now, there is easily room for interpretation errors here as it is a German article being discussed by an American (me) and someone from Africa (you) so, we are lucky to all be even speaking the same language! LOL
I guess I just don't understand what issue you have with this process, and I certainly do not agree with your assessment of his trees' ramification! He has produced some of the best Maples in the world- especially if you just compare his work against other West artists!
I agree with you here but remember those maples were not developed with the hedge method...this hedge method was started relatively recently...and in combination with the naturalistic style...do you see the connection between the two?
It is all opinion though, and I tend to like the style of his trees more than the freakishly manicured, unnatural prefect domes on Maples that is so popular in Japan.
But I shall post two pictures for you...and if you can tell me that you still dont like the maples developed by Japanese...then I would have not much to say. I would be lost for words.
I new I would open a can of worms..That is why I did not comment on the hedge method, until asked.
First let me make it clear. I love and respect Walter a lot.
The argument we had on IBF was just a continuation of another conversation we had before just two of us. But I must say after our first conversation he corrected some statements he made on IBF. I dont think it was incidental. I do not blame Walter for using the hedge method. Somewhere he mentioned 4000 trees in his collection. If I have 4000 trees I would also hedge.
All I can say is I studied his method and took detailed notes...and there are statements I dont understand and therefor dont agree with. And that has nothing to do with how the maple is cut but so much with where...or if it will look ugly while in development.
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