Shohin Size

Tidal Bonsai

Omono
Messages
1,401
Reaction score
2,904
Location
Brick NJ (USA)
USDA Zone
7a
Another noob question from...Percy! From what I have read, Shohin bonsai are roughly 4-8 inchs from the top lip of the pot. However I have seen some displays (like ones in the US National Shohin Bonsai Exhibition) that seem to be on the smaller end of the spectrum and others that seem to be on the larger end (as shown in the second image, and in the video from Bjorn). Are there different categories for these "smaller" Shohin displays and "larger" Shohin displays? Or are they all just Shohin?

 

Attachments

  • IMG_0554.JPG
    IMG_0554.JPG
    203.8 KB · Views: 155
  • IMG_0555.JPG
    IMG_0555.JPG
    210 KB · Views: 166

Anthony

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,290
Reaction score
8,389
Location
West Indies [ Caribbean ]
USDA Zone
13
The term - Shohin -

simply means - miniature bonsai

[1] Shito or kehitsuba - finger tip bonsai /tiny pea / poppy seed size -----------smaller than or equal to 3 inches

[2] Mame ' --- baby bonsai / little bean------------ 2 to 6 inches

1 and 2 may be called Shohin.

The Americans usually take the measurement from the lip of the container, the Australians from visible root system.

source - Bonsai ----- Koreshoff ------------ page 236

It's the same type of problem with the term ---------- slip potting -------- and the original term ------ potted up or potted on.

As Mr.Valavannis might have said, none of the terms are written in stone.

Good Day
Anthony

* We still use the term mame' or shito.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

The Professor
Messages
11,339
Reaction score
23,280
Location
on the IL-WI border, a mile from ''da Lake''
USDA Zone
5b
Anthony is correct, as is Bill Valvannis, the sizes are not absolute.

The only thing that counts is what the show chairperson, or show committee puts in writing in the particular show's rules for exhibition. Somewhere in the show packet with the application form for entering a tree, there will be a list of rules for trees exhibited, and that is where the sizes will be listed. If they are not listed, the show chairperson is not concerned about exact sizes. The judge, or judges for the show should start by being familiar with the show rules, and judge the trees accordingly. Show rules normally outline the class categories for the show and what the qualifiers are for each category.

So if the show chairman says that tree is shohin, then it is shohin, for the purposes of that particular exhibition. When you take the tree home, you can decide for yourself what to call it. But within reason, under 8 inches or under 20 cm is usually called shohin.
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,885
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
Another noob question from...Percy! From what I have read, Shohin bonsai are roughly 4-8 inchs from the top lip of the pot. However I have seen some displays (like ones in the US National Shohin Bonsai Exhibition) that seem to be on the smaller end of the spectrum and others that seem to be on the larger end (as shown in the second image, and in the video from Bjorn). Are there different categories for these "smaller" Shohin displays and "larger" Shohin displays? Or are they all just Shohin?

I saw all those trees Bjorn worked on at the show.

He decandled the JBP. If this was done two weeks prior to the show, that makes it early June. That means the new needles will be long next year.

That is why I chose not to use JBP as my box top tree. It's too early to decandle, and it didn't look good with spring candles. I used a Kishu Juniper instead.

Percy, the first picture is my display at the National Shohin Show. The Kishu is 8 1/2 inches. It was 9, so I did a repot to get it down a little further in the pot! You can get away with a bit of oversize with the top tree.

The others are all 8 inches or less. The azalea (bottom left) is really too big. The pot, especially. The tree is 8 inches. But that pot is special. It's one of Roy Minerai's first "upside down" glazed pots. (If not THE first!)

The chojubai on the root stand on the far right was awarded "Best in Show" Shohin under 8 inches.
 

Tidal Bonsai

Omono
Messages
1,401
Reaction score
2,904
Location
Brick NJ (USA)
USDA Zone
7a
Thank you all for the clarification! Adair M, congratulations on the award! I guess they all were in the 8 inch range, but some displays looked smaller than others.
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,885
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
Thank you all for the clarification! Adair M, congratulations on the award! I guess they all were in the 8 inch range, but some displays looked smaller than others.
Photos can be deceiving!
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,885
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
Just found this fabulous old thread on Shohin display. This picture says it all!!!

If I may give a critique of this display with my thoughts. Shohin display is "display on steriods", and every little detail matters. So, as my friend MarkyScott says, we're all students here, I offer my critique so that those interested might learn a little. The box stand display is very complicated, and to make it work as a whole is very challenging. So, let's begin:

There are some problems with this display. First is the top of the box. There should only be one tree up there, no accent. Centered.

The middle row is all wrong. The small tree is on the elevated shelf, and yet it's still shorter than the tree on the left. Ideally, all the trees should be about the same size. One tree much smaller than the rest makes it look like it doesn't belong there.

The box is set up with the left shelves lower. That means the "off box" tree should be on the left.

The stand under the "off box" tree is too heavy.

The tree in the lower right has movement going out of the box. It should move towards the center of the box. Generally speaking, the box top tree should be a conifer, and be an informal upright. The middle row trees can show move movement. They should move towards the box top tree. The bottom row is usually set with more upright trees, for stability.

One final thing, the box top tree is on a relatively tall stand. The box itself is already tall, and most people would be looking up at the top tree. Placing it on yet another tall stand makes it way to high up. True, the tree is a semicascade, and looks good on a tall stand. So, I suggest it's the wrong tree for the top. It would make a good second row tree, or even better, it should be the off the box tree. None of the trees in the display are conifers, but the one that seems most appropriate for the top would be the heavy trunk ficus, the one on the left in the middle. It doesn't need a stand under it, it's already tall enough.

One more minor point: I would try to use a couple pots with more color. At least one painted pot. And there should be a conifer or two.

It's difficult to have enough of the right kinds of trees, with the right movement, in good pots, in the right season... we are all limited with what we have. I tried to explain what I saw in that display, and what things I would do a little differently.
 

Tidal Bonsai

Omono
Messages
1,401
Reaction score
2,904
Location
Brick NJ (USA)
USDA Zone
7a
Thank you Adair, you are undoubtedly an expert on the subject! I completely agree, and read the postings by various members on the other thread. I was simply posting the picture to show the true scale of Shohin and a Shohin display. When I first saw the pictures from the US Shohin Show, they made the trees look much smaller than they are. For anyone else having the same issue, having a picture of a person standing next to the box and trees puts it all into scale!
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,885
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
Thank you Adair, you are undoubtedly an expert on the subject! I completely agree, and read the postings by various members on the other thread. I was simply posting the picture to show the true scale of Shohin and a Shohin display. When I first saw the pictures from the US Shohin Show, they made the trees look much smaller than they are. For anyone else having the same issue, having a picture of a person standing next to the box and trees puts it all into scale!
I'm hardly an expert! Lol!!! But I have been fortunate to have been taught a few things by Daisaku Nomoto, a Kokofu winner, and a Vice President of the Nippon Shohin Bonsai Association.

Daisaku says, "With Shohin, there are no rules..." and then he goes on for 30 minutes explaining all the rules! Lol!!
 

amcoffeegirl

Masterpiece
Messages
2,772
Reaction score
4,798
Location
IOWA
USDA Zone
5b
Where do you find the stands? Are they custom made?
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,885
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
Where do you find the stands? Are they custom made?
The box stands? Occasionally a vendor will have some. A lot of them are custom made.

The little stands the pots sit on inside the box stand can be custom, or imported. I've bought several from Matt Ouwinga. The vendors at the higher end shows will have them.
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,885
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a

Hyn Patty

Shohin
Messages
456
Reaction score
492
Location
NC mountains
USDA Zone
6
I think it would be fun to make some of these stands, though I would need to learn the 'rules' so to speak. We'll finally have the wood working and ceramics shop set up in the basement of the new house shortly. I'm really looking forward to this summer. Keep the photos and explanations coming. I am really enjoying reading them and learning.
 
Top Bottom