I'm starting to come to the realization that in order to do bonsai at the level that I want to I will have to stick to shohin. I've been thinking about this alot, and I just can't afford the material to do bonsai at a high level with anything larger. Both material and Pots for larger bonsai are out of my range at this higher level. I know good shohin material and pots are ofcourse not inexpensive, but it's nothing like the big boys. Anyone else come to this realization yet?
Shohin
- Thread starter cquinn
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Another plus, when you reach my age, you can still move them around, but the biggest benefit, you can have a lot more trees in the same amount of space...........
Ciao,
Harry
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Actually, it may be the opposite.
Although logic would seem to dictate that smaller material would be less expensive because there's less of it, it's more likely the opposite that' s true for worthwhile, purpose grown shohin material.
Well-grown shohin material can be ALOT more expensive than lesser larger material. You have to look no further than here:
http://riverbaybonsai.com/index.html
at any of the tremendous shohin plants to see they command the same high prices good larger bonsai can command.
It's not surprising if you look at what's going on in growing decent shohin material. A rule of thumb is that the smaller the bonsai, the more expertise required. You have less of everything to work with--leaves, branches, soil, pot. That leaves less room for error and less room for "fudging" branch placement, roots, etc.
All this doesn't mean you can't buy a cheaper smaller plant to work on. It means you will have to work extremely hard to find worthwhile material that "works" visually as bonsai. It will also take more skill to develop it as bonsai. Larger bonsai are mostly for lazy people who don't have the skill to work on small trees, which is why all my trees are over 24" tall and have pots as big as washtubs.
Although logic would seem to dictate that smaller material would be less expensive because there's less of it, it's more likely the opposite that' s true for worthwhile, purpose grown shohin material.
Well-grown shohin material can be ALOT more expensive than lesser larger material. You have to look no further than here:
http://riverbaybonsai.com/index.html
at any of the tremendous shohin plants to see they command the same high prices good larger bonsai can command.
It's not surprising if you look at what's going on in growing decent shohin material. A rule of thumb is that the smaller the bonsai, the more expertise required. You have less of everything to work with--leaves, branches, soil, pot. That leaves less room for error and less room for "fudging" branch placement, roots, etc.
All this doesn't mean you can't buy a cheaper smaller plant to work on. It means you will have to work extremely hard to find worthwhile material that "works" visually as bonsai. It will also take more skill to develop it as bonsai. Larger bonsai are mostly for lazy people who don't have the skill to work on small trees, which is why all my trees are over 24" tall and have pots as big as washtubs.
I think it is just the opposite really. Killer shohin are much harder in all aspects of bonsai then the larger trees. They will run about the same in price, be much harder to work on, much harder to grow, keep in check and much harder to take care of. I have both, very well developed shohin and very large killer trees. To me, the bigger trees are much easier.
Jason
shohin kid
Shohin
I couldn't agree more! Especially when it comes to watering. Some of my trees need water twice a day, and it isn't even the hottest part of summer yet.
In my experience shopping for tokoname or high quality pots, shohin and "big bonsai" pots are not that much different in price. It is hard to make small, perfect little pots.
The only real advantage I see that shohin has over other bonsai is space. Thats it!
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I'm more or less talking about $ rather than the work involved. I can spend $1000.00 on a nice shohin black pine, but a similiar quality pine 36 to 48 inches will be $5,000 or more. The same with Shimpaku. I spend at least an hour a day on my trees as it is.
kytombonsai
Yamadori
It seems like the older I get the more I gravitate towards shohin trees. The first 10 years I was in bonsai bigger was better. I could move almost all of my trees by myself and my boys could help me with the very large trees. Now the kids moved out and I found myself buying 4 wheel garden carts that some trees never leave. Wheel them out of the garage in the spring and back in the fall. I have noticed that other members have done the same over the years. So me personally, it's not the money for shohin versus larger trees because I agree that you can spend just as much if not more on a shohin than a large tree.
Tom
Tom
Marc S
Yamadori
Wise decision.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
It's all realitive.....
ovation22
Mame
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Tom,
If you or any of the other Cinci club members want to get rid of your big stuff, give me a call. I'm sure we can work out a deal.
daniel
Mame
Tom,
If you or any of the other Cinci club members want to get rid of your big stuff, give me a call. I'm sure we can work out a deal.
John, I'm telling your wife you said that! =)
However, wouldn't shohin 'potensai' be more likely to be found at nurseries or 'big box' stores? Seems so to me. For instance, you might find a 1" diameter trunk of some sort at a nursery and work it fairly quickly into a doable shohin versus the whole "plant-it-for-10-years" routine for larger stock. Right?
Daniel
TheSteve
Chumono
It still won't have the features of a mature tree Daniel.
Daysleeper
Sapling
Shohin are just more pleasing to the eye, chicks think they are cute and they make much nicer dsplays. Anything larger is just 'ohh, look at that tree in a pot' Imotbh.
Marc S
Yamadori
Very true, and it is much cheaper.
