Shou Sugi Ban for grow boxes

SU2

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occasionally I see a tree in a grow box that I think fits it better than a “real” pot. There was a rhododendron shared here that fit that.
Could you elaborate/clarify what you meant here? I mean, I'd say the aesthetics are both tree-dependent *and* subjective/personally-independent, uncertain how you're using "fit" there IE appropriate horticultural pairing, or the aesthetic complimenting (or lack thereof!) between a given specimen & its container..

(generally speaking though, I'd say most bonsai are not in-refinement but in-development and, in that case, a bonsai pot is improper husbandry while a larger wooden box is great husbandry, beaten only by grow-bags IMO, am actually trying to swap-over to grow-bags for most things as it lets you get wayyyy longer of an uninterrupted vegetative-growout before needing rootwork, ie they just allow you to do more in a given # of years before even counting the benefits of that extra air-exchange with the soil inside the bags!)
 

FreeFlyer

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I'll be making some boxes with this technique...I have left over pieces from the 500+ square foot deck I just finished building...NEVER DOING THAT AGAIN by the way 😓. I used Cedar 2x6's for the Shou Sugi Ban deck surface, and holy hell was it a process. It should out live the house though 😆. There's no way i'd do this for temporary boxes, if I didn't already have the scraps.
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Sunwyrm

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I just bought some barstools for my deck like this. Absolutely beautiful texture.

I also bought brushes just so I could do this to grow boxes. I love how easy bags are for trees in development, but if I had a nicely done box? I really want to just try it and see how long it lasts. If nothing else I can make some fancy display stands.
 
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micahmcgrath

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I'll be making some boxes with this technique...I have left over pieces from the 500+ square foot deck I just finished building...NEVER DOING THAT AGAIN by the way 😓. I used Cedar 2x6's for the Shou Sugi Ban deck surface, and holy hell was it a process. It should out live the house though 😆. There's no way i'd do this for temporary boxes, if I didn't already have the scraps.
View attachment 323550View attachment 323554
Even more beautiful in person, if you can believe that! Glad to see it finished up
 

Forsoothe!

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All this big talk and no pictures. If I send one of you a camera, is there someone there who can show you which end to point at these most wonderful boxes in the world?
 

SU2

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I'll be making some boxes with this technique...I have left over pieces from the 500+ square foot deck I just finished building...NEVER DOING THAT AGAIN by the way 😓. I used Cedar 2x6's for the Shou Sugi Ban deck surface, and holy hell was it a process. It should out live the house though 😆. There's no way i'd do this for temporary boxes, if I didn't already have the scraps.
View attachment 323550View attachment 323554
Why not? I've never done large-surface-area endeavors like that but, for smaller stuff, it's easy-as-pie! I hesitate to say/suggest this, for fear of it being taken the wrong way / as a pejorative, but is it possible you were using under-sized equipment for this? IE, when I was first doing it I was wasting a TON of time on inefficient "char-removal" methods, was only once I got that in-line that it became 'a breeze'!

BEAUTIFUL deck there btw, though you of course know that ;D
 

SU2

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I just bought some barstools for my deck like this. Absolutely beautiful texture.

I also bought brushes just so I could do this to grow boxes. I love how easy bags are for trees in development, but if I had a nicely done box? I really want to just try it and see how long it lasts. If nothing else I can make some fancy display stands.
IMO the horticultural properties of bags make them a must-use in my book (for development, of course), I've made so many "high-breathe" boxes IE metal-mesh bottoms, tons of holes on the sides, raised sides etc etc but none of them come close to growbags/pond-baskets/etc, getting that "air-prune of roots" effect is "up our alley" so much so that it surprises me they haven't been considered a standard for ages now (am swapping-over all my specimen as they're repotted, after some years of using them & seeing the rootplates I get with them there's simply no comparison they blow-away regular containers)

Re stands, funny you mention that--- do you collect trees at all? Failed yamadori collects are inherently "good looking wood" (otherwise you wouldn't be choosing/collecting it in the 1st place :p ), I'd had a pile that I cured and just didn't know what to do with, in the past weeks I've been working them all into display-stands and many w/ the shou sugi ban burnishings, if you just do a mild, homogeneous charring and then rub-back(or sand-back) til you've got some grain showing, then rub it w/ >220g, the look of the woodgrain is just amazing (I'm only doing this on intact wood, not planks/lumber/from-home.depot wood, only dead&cured yamadori trunks, so the grain is showing/accentuating stuff it's not just "lines&swirls on a board"!)
 

FreeFlyer

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I’m partially kidding about NEVER AGAIN. It really was rewarding and fun. I was using a large roofing torch to burn. That was very effective with the burning. My perfectionist qualities kicked in on the scrubbing though. I tried the small wire brush, and the nylon brush wheel on a high speed drill, but both left an uneven streak look. I opted for an 8in stiff nylon deck brush. It allowed an even removal of the char and really came out well. I did all that by myself for the most part. It was just a lot of work.

I finally got the boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits applied. I did two coats, with the last coat adding a small amount of canning wax. I’m really happy with the final product!

C53EB48D-FD2E-4CDB-90D5-BCA76855662D.jpeg53911765-F494-40B7-9108-10F86D7E8F05.jpeg

Why not? I've never done large-surface-area endeavors like that but, for smaller stuff, it's easy-as-pie! I hesitate to say/suggest this, for fear of it being taken the wrong way / as a pejorative, but is it possible you were using under-sized equipment for this? IE, when I was first doing it I was wasting a TON of time on inefficient "char-removal" methods, was only once I got that in-line that it became 'a breeze'!

BEAUTIFUL deck there btw, though you of course know that ;D
 

Carol 83

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I’m partially kidding about NEVER AGAIN. It really was rewarding and fun. I was using a large roofing torch to burn. That was very effective with the burning. My perfectionist qualities kicked in on the scrubbing though. I tried the small wire brush, and the nylon brush wheel on a high speed drill, but both left an uneven streak look. I opted for an 8in stiff nylon deck brush. It allowed an even removal of the char and really came out well. I did all that by myself for the most part. It was just a lot of work.

I finally got the boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits applied. I did two coats, with the last coat adding a small amount of canning wax. I’m really happy with the final product!

View attachment 326221View attachment 326222
Beautiful work.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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@FreeFlyer
Damn, that is one beautiful deck.

And your choice of finish, boiled linseed oil, diluted with mineral spirits, with paraffin dissolved in the last coat, that is so old school. Love it. My father, still alive, is a retired house painter, and recommended that exact same formula for sealing wood when I bought a house. You do the boiled linseed oil & mineral spirits coating several times with dry wood. Then doing the last application with paraffin in the mix, is excellent. You could do the same technique to preserve deadwood in a bonsai tree. Though I would probably skip the paraffin for the bonsai tree, but linseed oil is an excellent wood preservative.

I'd love to see it in person sometime. I keep threatening Carol to drop in for dinner, maybe when I finally do, we'll schedule with you and Carol and I will come over to see this deck in person, it is sweet. (I have family in Saint Louis, that before Covid, I visited often).
 

SU2

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@FreeFlyer
Damn, that is one beautiful deck.

And your choice of finish, boiled linseed oil, diluted with mineral spirits, with paraffin dissolved in the last coat, that is so old school. Love it. My father, still alive, is a retired house painter, and recommended that exact same formula for sealing wood when I bought a house. You do the boiled linseed oil & mineral spirits coating several times with dry wood. Then doing the last application with paraffin in the mix, is excellent. You could do the same technique to preserve deadwood in a bonsai tree. Though I would probably skip the paraffin for the bonsai tree, but linseed oil is an excellent wood preservative.

I'd love to see it in person sometime. I keep threatening Carol to drop in for dinner, maybe when I finally do, we'll schedule with you and Carol and I will come over to see this deck in person, it is sweet. (I have family in Saint Louis, that before Covid, I visited often).
could you elaborate on that a lil, by chance?? I'm curious about:
- post burning-and-brushing of the piece, do I even need to 'cut' the linseed oil w/ mineral spirits? (also, do I need more than linseed+mineral spirits? Have appropriate oil-brushes already)
- "Boiled linseed oil"...I'm woefully unfamiliar-- if I'm unable to get my hands on it, are there good alternatives?
- You say "would probably skip the paraffin", I'm presuming because you wouldn't want wax-by-roots? If that's so, why allow the linseed oil? ((also, to be clear, are you talking whole-box coatings or just the exterior?)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So I'm fighting-through a late "summer intervention" phase in my yard now and had a wooden box that, upon being emptied, wasn't in too-bad shape (had to pull the tree earlier-than-expected due to surprise deadwood-fungi attack) so I:
- hosed it 'clean',
- spent 15min with the torch, getting every lil area (not charring-hard, merely 'hitting the surface', I don't know[or really care] re nomenclature, ie if it's "still shou sugggi banez if I don't go full-char", but it certainly still protects VERY well as I do even-gentler burnishings of my Bougies' deadwood and it's far-superior to L.Sulfur for preservation, so am confident these 'gentler burnings' are still very very effective!)
- spent maybe 5min, wearing rubber-gloves & brandishing a Brillo, w/ the hose going, to rub-it-back (removing the char that'd otherwise be getting on your hands when you went to move/touch the box, I think that's what I really like about these "halfway-to-shou sugi ban" burnishings, the types I'd always done on bonsai-deadwood, which is that the post-burnishing isn't this undertaking of sanding-back so much, don't get me wrong I've got some BC-trunks that I did full-char & sand-back-fully and the color...wow it's just beautiful but it takes longer, doing my box this way was simple & I expect it'll let me get 2, not 1, more use out of this box :D

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Gotta love being lucky enough to have an industrial-strength fan in my backyard 'shop' whenever I need it ;D
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SO.....I'd always called this 'burnishing' for years it's replaced l.sulfur for me for deadwood-preservation, only heard 'shou sugi ban' in August & learned of the 'heavy char, or heavy-char + a brush-back' approach.....don't get me wrong, I can see why the full-on burnishing ('shou s.b.') would be far more preserving but I've got a w.pall-styled watering philosophy, here in semi-tropic/super-humid 9a FL, the heavy irrigation & weak nature of bougie-deadwood has made this a pretty critical thing for me, I've already been messing-around on...less-than-stellar...specimen of mine to see how hard I can burnish bonsai-deadwood(ie doing this w/o heating deadwood so much the radiant-heat damages living-tissue, or "cutting the line" when trying to treat the edge of a deadwood area and not hit the living-tissue aside it) to get a better feel for the limits for a handful of species (and'll report back for sure) but this is truly the coolest preservation method I've ever found (and appears to be among the best/most-optimal, to boot...and it's currently trendy, which I don't see going away anytime soon, so that's obvi a mixed-bag) Wish I'd known of it years ago I'd have done so much with it I mean most things with it, including decking/home stuff I don't just mean bonsai&arts, anyways thanks again @Jzack605 because at least I get to start now, will be transplanting one of my favorite Bougies into it today or tomorrow & expect it to look great but am already looking at my grow-out 'box'/bed (2x12" lumber on 4x4 corners, raised 2" above-earth with a mulch-wall blocking that 'passage-out-of-box', good for quick&fast growth on many tropicals) and thinking I need to burnish that whole thing in fact my next to-do is finding out what I need for 'next step up' torching, I've got a butane-loadable hand-unit (not handheld/pipe-type, in-between that and a handheld propane torch) as well as the standard handheld benzomatic propane tank (saw a youtube this afternoon where a very talented&respected artist used one of these to burnish the deadwood-top of a BC's flared buttressing/nebari, like when just the top-portion of a surface root is deadwood, I was cringing at the though to the radiant-heat going to the bottom of that root & hurting living tissue....am now so eager to 'find the limits' of how far(surface/distance wise) and how deep/long you can char bonsai deadwood w/o hurting living tissue, I'd be holding sooo much more nice deadwood features today if I'd been able to properly intervene earlier, once fungi gets-hold to a certain point a piece is fully-compromised even if it won't naturally fall for years it's still not 'save-able' like something you can treat-when-fresh (I've already got a branch/'jin' that I burnished into its branch-collar (skinned its cambium first, was instead-of simply prune-removal of this branch)) We'll see, I'll certainly be reporting-back as I've been doing an ambitious amount of testing in fact it, and putting my twin-trunk bougie in ^that pot, are my fri night :D GG torch 1st, gah it's just so fun, soothing even, to paint w/ fire!!! :)
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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@SU2
I would skip the paraffin when using the boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits on deadwood on a bonsai tree. Because we routinely treat the deadwood every year or two. No need for the paraffin.

I don't understand why you are worried about roots. You do not paint this stuff on the roots of your trees.

I would use the paraffin if I was using the boiled linseed oil, paraffin & mineral spirits blend to preserve a wooden grow box I would probably use extra paraffin, as you really want to make the interior of the box totally water proof. Paraffin it totally non toxic, when used to paint a box it will not hurt the roots of the tree should they come in contact with the wall of the box.
 
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