Should I dig it up and pot it?

[Crizzi Questions]

So I have this pine in my yard. It’s on the side of my house and I will be moving before next winter.
Now that I’m into bonsai and looking to acquire trees I’m dying to try to dig this up!
While I’m new to bonsai I see potential here.
Questions....
What kind of pine is this?
How wide should I trench to get this out?
What would I pot it in? Size of pot and soil?
Would I prune it right away or wait?
Place in shade and water like crazy in a well draining pot?
I live in Ohio zone 5B.
When should I dig it up?
Does it winter here outside all year or need protection once potted and why would it since it’s been outside here for decades?

This is the other one I am considering at the corner of my yard.

 

[Potawatomi13]

First is Mugo Pine, second is Birds Nest Spruce. Many thanks for adding good photos. Both "can" be good Bonsai. Vance Wood is resident Mugo guru. Can find MUCH on them by search function on this site(upper rt corner of screen). Birds Nest not so sure about who guru. If adding personal location to profile will appear with avatar for better advice. Welcome and best of fortune with these.

 

[M. Frary]

I don't think the pine would be worth the time. The foliage is feet away from the main trunk. It would be a long time if ever before you got it chased back.
The spruce I can't give much advice on except it needs to be dug in the spring before the buds open.

 

[sorce]

May as well yoink em all for s&g!

My birds nest survived a late fall basketing last year.

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

May as well yoink em all for s&g!

You're setting him up for failure right off the bat.
1. It's the wrong time of the year.
2. He's new. Collecting conifers is tough for people who do it all the time.
3. The material (the pine) will probably need grafting to get foliage in close to the trunk. I've had the opportunity to dig a couple Mugo pines that were similar. I said no thanks. Get one from a nursery.
4. The spruce maybe can be collected in the fall but once again,conifers can be touchy to collect. Spruces not as much as pines but it still takes some skill.

Now I know you're going to reply dig them up for the practice.
But practice for what? Working on the chain gang?

 

[sorce]

You're setting him up for failure right off the bat.
1. It's the wrong time of the year.
2. He's new. Collecting conifers is tough for people who do it all the time.
3. The material (the pine) will probably need grafting to get foliage in close to the trunk. I've had the opportunity to dig a couple Mugo pines that were similar. I said no thanks. Get one from a nursery.
4. The spruce maybe can be collected in the fall but once again,conifers can be touchy to collect. Spruces not as much as pines but it still takes some skill.

Now I know you're going to reply dig them up for the practice.
But practice for what? Working on the chain gang?

My fattie Mugo from last year ...
Though I just thought how I still hope it is Zombie as hell!...died.

I learned where roots are likely to grow in the type of soil I dug it from.

I learned I may have to treat whatever white fungal like growth it got sooner.

I learned sifted DE holds up in the concrete mixer. Learned what "dormant" watering would be like.

Learned how dry is dead dry.

Learned some technique on safely binding them up for transport .

Learned that still pisses off the Sorceress.

Learned how they burn in situ.

Learned my tree weight limit.

Learned free fattie mugos are possible, though maybe not always from righteous SS ladies who offer one water.

Learned whatever it had if it had something doesn't harm a tree or plant if I use soil from its pot.

........

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

My fattie Mugo from last year ...
Though I just thought how I still hope it is Zombie as hell!...died.

I learned where roots are likely to grow in the type of soil I dug it from.

I learned I may have to treat whatever white fungal like growth it got sooner.

I learned sifted DE holds up in the concrete mixer. Learned what "dormant" watering would be like.

Learned how dry is dead dry.

Learned some technique on safely binding them up for transport .

Learned that still pisses off the Sorceress.

Learned how they burn in situ.

Learned my tree weight limit.

Learned free fattie mugos are possible, though maybe not always from righteous SS ladies who offer one water.

Learned whatever it had if it had something doesn't harm a tree or plant if I use soil from its pot.

........

Sorce

So basically you learned how to kill a tree slowly.
A chainsaw puts them out of their misery quicker.
And then you could move on to another tree quicker.
Maybe figure out a different way to kill that one?
I would want to learn how to keep one that's good for bonsai alive instead of wasting time on material that won't amount to much.
If you're digging a tree for bonsai shouldn't it be the real thing?
You're depending energy,sometimes a lot collecting trees. Why not one that will be workable if it survives?
This Mugo is years maybe decades if it survives from being anything close to bonsai if ever.
I would pass it up.
Might as well go dig up a seedling. You would have a better chance,quicker to a bonsai that way.

 

[sorce]

I can't even see if this any good or not!

Plus.....for the more aggresive horticulturalist...(not me)

Grafting is always a possibility.

The say start with a fat trunk.

I think close foliage is a bonus....

But I bet I could even successfully graft one with......

Practice!

Amd a sharp clean blade!

Sorce

 

[Cadillactaste]

Season is wrong to dig this up now @sorce ...so one strike already. I just don't see taking on the risk of killing it and the work needed to go into it. I would hate to see them become discouraged. I am all about the bones. I don't see a grand bonsai...I think they could find better material even to collect and...tag it for later when it's appropriate to dig. Than setting themselves up for failure/frustration. Looks better in ground than in a pot is my take. Of course I am all about even new folk be proud of their bones they set on their bench. Those trees will be fun to take to the next level...and they won't later think they waisted their time on it.

Practice...why not practice on good bones? Step up ones game right out of the gait. They will be proud of their bench in a year...by doing so.

 

[Vance Wood]

My fattie Mugo from last year ...
Though I just thought how I still hope it is Zombie as hell!...died.

I learned where roots are likely to grow in the type of soil I dug it from.

I learned I may have to treat whatever white fungal like growth it got sooner.

I learned sifted DE holds up in the concrete mixer. Learned what "dormant" watering would be like.

Learned how dry is dead dry.

Learned some technique on safely binding them up for transport .

Learned that still pisses off the Sorceress.

Learned how they burn in situ.

Learned my tree weight limit.

Learned free fattie mugos are possible, though maybe not always from righteous SS ladies who offer one water.

Learned whatever it had if it had something doesn't harm a tree or plant if I use soil from its pot.

........

Sorce

I really would love it if you could say what you mean and mean what you say up front. I know you have great intentions and you know a lot but, you spend so much of your energy, (that at best is esoteric,) which demands that someone knows you or knows the idioms you use and their meanings. In short it is impossible sometimes to determine what the hell you are talking about. Are you serious?,-- and about what?-- are you BS'ing or are you intentionally trying to be evasaive? Or---are you joking, and leveling an veiled insult?

I spend a good deal of time trying to be accurate in what I say and how I say it. What I share about Mugo Pines is important to me and I have been known to rewrite a post several times in order to make sure the point is accurately stated. Still; after reading second hand interpretations of my writings makes me wonder if we speak the same language? When one considers we cannot agree on the differences between pinching and clipping, using fingers or using scissors all to describe the same thing,--- unless we are talking about something else????? I think you see my point, even when we know what we are talking about are we able to make someone else understand what the hell we just said? What's worse; often the important "someone else" just referenced thinking he/she understands what was said acts on that understanding. As it turns out they understood it wrong and they killed a tree.

Not meaning to piss you off, or piss on you, just want to share a concern because sometimes I do not know for sure what you are always saying to me?

 

[Crizzi Questions]

I very much appreciate all of your advice.
I can see value in failure but I would prefer to set myself up for as much success as possible. My time and energy will hopefully be here next year as a source of new bonsai pride and future lessons. My failures will hopefully be smaller than killing a tree before I get it into a pot. Lol
So advising to purchase a Mugo pine or other pine or conifer; pre bonsai nursery stock tree with a thick flared base and smaller needling down the branches?

 

[PiñonJ]

Andy Smith has some decent videos online about collecting yamadori. You could start with those to get some basic concepts. Generally, you want the smallest root ball that still has a lot of fine roots. Start digging outside of where you think you’ll end up. Right now, after the buds have opened, is the worst time to dig. You can collect again in early fall, but if you’re moving, you have to decide if you’ll be able to give adequate after care. Build a grow box just big enough to hold the root ball, or use a colander, and leave most of the native soil on, filling the rest of the space with pumice. The pine may have an interesting raft trunk, but, as Mike has said, the foliage is way too far away. You’d have to ask Vance if it’s likely to back bud enough to fix that.

 

[BrianBay9]

Andy's collecting video is more targeted to collecting in the mountains. It's actually much harder to collect in much of the midwest because the soil is good and trees put down strong roots. Some of Andy's tips may apply but much of the technique is site specific.

 

[Crizzi Questions]

Thank you both for replying. I think I will go with the advice to leave it be and try to purchase some nursery stock with a good wide flared base.
Vance Wood, though he didn’t give advice directly seem to agree with the others that it would not be worth it. The chances of survival are low and the effort would be too great.
So if I purchase a pine now can I report it now? Is it similar to digging it up? Or is there a big difference in the two?

 

[my nellie]

... ...So advising to purchase a Mugo pine or other pine or conifer; pre bonsai nursery stock tree with a thick flared base and smaller needling down the branches?

Absolutely YES!
You posted what was in my intention to reply to you.
You are new to bonsai.
"Collecting"/digging up Pine trees is not such an easy endeavor as it may sounds.
Let them trees where they are in your garden and get yourself one or two nursery Pine trees for practicing how to keep them alive.
Read, read, read all the valuable info about cultivating Pines for bonsai.
Then start implementing on your trees.
Test for yourself. Get to know what they need, when they need it, how to provide what they need.

I wish you luck with Bonsai!

 

[BrianBay9]

Thank you both for replying. I think I will go with the advice to leave it be and try to purchase some nursery stock with a good wide flared base.
Vance Wood, though he didn’t give advice directly seem to agree with the others that it would not be worth it. The chances of survival are low and the effort would be too great.
So if I purchase a pine now can I report it now? Is it similar to digging it up? Or is there a big difference in the two?

Generally speaking any kind of root work is best done in early spring. Deciduous trees first, then conifers. Your climate will dictate the timing so it's best to take advice from someone in a local club. Sometimes you can get away with repotting out of season, but if you don't have much experience yet it's best to stick with tried and true methods and timing. I think Vance may have a different timetable specifically for Mugo pines, but I'll let him comment on that.

 

[Crizzi Questions]

Thank you both.
I see that Vance lives in Michigan, my neighbor to the north. So anything that he can grow and weather sounds like a really good choice for me as well. I’ve been reading a lot. But haven’t chosen a specific tree species to read about yet aside from the elm and the ficus I already own. But I definitely need more ASAP so that I leave these be for now. Lol
The Mugo pine is where I will start gathering specific information . Much appreciation to everyone here for all the great advice and support given to a very humble newbie.

 

[sorce]

Maybe this is as straight as it needs to get.

I never told dude to dig em right now....
I said you might as well dig em for shits and giggles.
With a reference to fall success.

So this....

You're setting him up for failure right off the bat

And this....

Season is wrong to dig this up now

Is putting words in my mouth, or somehow only demonstrating that things were not read. Or unwritten things were assumed....

What I know....
Is this excitement...

I’m dying to try to dig this up!

Needs to be FED!

IMO.

That's also a pretty lame ass spot for both those in the yard...

So if one was looking to sell a house......
There may be a whole nother bucket of good reasons to dig this....
We agree on this...
"Shit"material up...
Well fuck...I cant call anything shit..
I already told you what is POSSIBLE.

Crizzy could be Latin for Graft master for all I know.
And in that alone. ...this is a score for him.

But even if it is shit.....
Like I May or may not have considered my big Mugo...

You see....

It doesn't matter if I consider this good or bad or anything.

It is dead now and I still learned that list of shit up there from digging it.

Here is better advice Crizzy....

Spend a thousand dollars on a plane ticket to the Rockies, no...the French Alps...dont they have Mugo there?

Or no no...

Go spend a few Hundred dollars on a "shit or good" tree and piss that away...

Please tell me....

What are better options than all the benefits of digging these up....

AFTER YOU FEED THEM FISH THROUGH TO THE SOLSTICE AND POT THEM NEAR THE FIRST FULL MOON AFTER THE SOLSTICE, PREFERABLY DURING A RAINY OR OTHERWISE NATURALLY SHADY 3 DAY PERIOD.

That's what I would do....so you don't have to wonder.

The shit you can learn after said endeavor is only dependant on the shit you pay attention to during each process and with daily observation afterward.

If you believe spring alone is the best time to work roots you are severely underestimating the power of the Moon.

I pruned some BS back in the yard today...to take advantage of the waxing moon....

Mulberry....and I'm digging it up the same time as stated above....

To the sound of leftover fireworks....

So now that those are over...

Boom.

Sorce

 

[ValorG]

Go for it in my opinion. Even if it dies you will learn from that experience. Everybody kills trees and as long as you grow and learn from every death. Its fine by me.

 

[daudelus]

Consider working on the pine while it remains in the ground if you want practice... clean it up, practice grafting of foliage.. practice with it in the ground and stable allows for the healthiest and strongest tree and more likely success.., having said that, research timing of all procedures. This mugo may never amount to anything you want to put in a pot, but learning can be fun...