Should I harden these trees, before winter is over?

Anhosustali

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I live in Utah, zone 5. I recently had a friend fly me out to Oregon to help him landscape his home. While I was there I found two trees I liked; A bird nest spruce and a Koto-no-ito Japanese maple. That were dormant when I picked them up. I flew home with them in my carry on suit case. When I got home I threw them under my grow lab in my basement, I wanted to let them grow a bit and then start the cycle normally next winter ( keeping in mind the hardiness of the trees, that are not local here.) However when my grandpa came over he suggested that because I shouldn't have allowed the trees to start growing again because they didn't complete the traditional length of the dormant cycle. I bet they were dormant for about 2 months. My question is, would it be wise to gradually re introduce the trees to a dormant cycle, even after the maple has used some energy to produce some leaves. Or should I just continue and enter dormant cycle again next winter. Also when would be the best time to transplant both of these trees into a bonsai pot?IMG_6006.JPGIMG_6007.JPGIMG_6009.JPGIMG_6010.JPGIMG_6011.JPGIMG_6015.JPGIMG_6016.JPGIMG_6019.JPGIMG_6020.JPGIMG_6023.JPG
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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What I found for conifers grown indoors, is that they'll go dormant as soon as you put them outdoors in spring. Not because they go actually dormant, but because the switch from electrical lights to sunlight is stressing them out and probably will kill a lot of foliage.

Most trees can go without dormancy for a year, no biggie. I'm worried more about bugs, fungi, and other issues that occur when having them indoors.

I'd put the spruce outside if I were you, at least, if it hasn't started growing already. Not sure about the maple.
 

JudyB

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You will have to do the best you can inside for the maple. If you can get a good grow light if you don’t have one, it will keep the new growth from getting leggy and weak. After a tree wakes up like that, you must let it grow as it’s expending it’s energy now to make foliage. As far as dormancy requirements, a tree won’t wake up until the requirements for that species are met as far as I know. I don’t know about the conifer.
 

AlainK

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I wouldn't for the maples, unless you have an unheated greenhouse that stays around 0 (32).....
 

Anhosustali

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My basement is pretty cold probably floats around 55 F. Also I have yellow and white shop light set up to get a full range. So what I am picking up is I should slowly transition my conifer out side. I should also keep the maple inside until this summer and then transfer it out side; starting it on a normal cycle?
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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My basement is pretty cold probably floats around 55 F. Also I have yellow and white shop light set up to get a full range. So what I am picking up is I should slowly transition my conifer out side. I should also keep the maple inside until this summer and then transfer it out side; starting it on a normal cycle?
I would not slowly transition it, but put it outdoors right away. Because that's what happens in spring too; it gets warmer, then a little cooler, then warmer again and then growth resumes. You want to keep it dormant. Keep it chilled.
Birds nest is a variety of Picea abies, which is about as hardy as they get by design. It's a genetic trait. Mine (regular abies) are frozen solid for at least a week every winter.
I would even go as far as putting it outside even if it has started growing. Not because that's a good option, but because it's better than keeping it indoors.
 

AlainK

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When I got home I threw them under my grow lab in my basement,

I think you shouldn't have. Where do you live that is colder than Oregon?

Trees have natural cycles, artificial lights, etc, to me, I don't want to have anything to do with that paraphenelia;

Can't say anything about the conifers, and anyway they can pretend to be alive months after they're dead.

But for the maple, you'll have to watch the leaves. If they stay green and lokk healthy in a week's time, they're probably in the right place, even if the new shoots are very long. I'd suggest you took tghem out in the natural light when weather permits (above 0)C, 32F) and there's no wind or very little.

Most maples in the ground can stand temperatures around -25° C (-13F). When in a pot, you can cut these by half, especially when there's low temp at night, but temps above 0°c during the day : the sugars in the different parts of the plant can then work as a kind of anti-freeze.

But when such species are grown indoors, they become weaker and weaker. If the new shoots begin to drop, or even rot, prune them and put the tree outside. Protect the roots with any sort of "mulch". Hemp straw is great, hay is excellent too, leaves from a disease-free tree (I have a big Zelkova in my small garden) are very good too. If you can keep the roots slightly above/below zero, it will live :cool:

Or you can invest hundreds of Doublezons to try and make a 15 Doublezons tree from a garden centre. It's up to you...
 

JudyB

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If you subject that maple to 33 degree temps I doubt it will live now that it’s leafed out. It will be better for you to try to mimic spring summer conditions to make it grow as strongly as possible. just my thoughts.
 

AlainK

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If you subject that maple to 33 degree temps I doubt it will live now that it’s leafed out.

It could, if the frost doesn't last too long, but lots of branches will die and the rest of the tree will need "special care". What do I mean by "special care"? I dunno. The special care you can take.

And 'Koto-no-ito' has never been used for bonsai. I mean, it's hard enough to keep in a zone 8 location with summers that get drier, and hotter and hotter each summer. 'Koto-no-ito' is always grafted, it can hardly live on its own roots. The internodes are quite long. The whole tree is rather fragile. You can try and make a bonsai out of it, but (...)

Update your profile : I still haven't understood whereabout you live now, so it's a bit like tossing the dice to try and reply in a useful way...
 
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WNC Bonsai

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It could, if the frost doesn't last too long, but lots of branches will die and the rest of the tree will need "special care". What do I mean by "special care"? I dunno. The special care you can take.

And 'Koto-no-ito' has never been used for bonsai. I mean, it's hard enough to keep in a zone 8 location with summers that get drier, and hotter and hotter each summer. 'Koto-no-ito' is always grafted, it can hardly live on its own roots. The internodes are quite long. The whole tree is rather fragile. You can try and make a bonsai out of it, but (...)

Update your profile : I still haven't understood whereabout you live now, so it's a bit like tossing the dice to try and reply in a useful way...
Come on Alain, the first 6 words in his post were ”I live in Utah, zone 5”.
 

Orion_metalhead

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My basement is pretty cold probably floats around 55 F. Also I have yellow and white shop light set up to get a full range.

You dont need lights under 5000k. If you have a "yellow" light at 3500K, I would replace it with something closer to daylight. I am using 6500K bulbs for my set up.
 

Anhosustali

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Alright I think I have a pretty good plan for the conifer. Plant it out side bury the bot and cover the roots with a form of insulate. Then acclimate it to the normal sun, so maybe lean in with a sun screen if needed. Y'all helped a ton in that regards. Now the maple is a little more convoluted. I added some additional information below the zone is 5-9. Here is what I have done so far, when I initially sent out the thread only about 4 sections of buds had popped. Now we are at 8.... :confused: I am a student so I don't have the ability to move it out side and return home before it has dropped below freezing. This makes it a little more difficult. I cleaned out my fridge and tried to use that to slow the budding, how ever no luck. The leaves look a normal green. The new stems may be a little long, how ever I don't know if this is because the species.

From what I have got from the forum is I have few options
1: Keep the maple indoors and almost pretend like spring came early maintaining the tree inside until its warm enough to put it out side. If I picked this course id probably put 6 shop lights running on it at all different angels. Also some one suggested pruning the long growth if inside.

2: Plant the tree and pot out side like the spruce. Insulate the root ball and keep it warm. Losing the energy that the tree used to make the leaves but gaining traditional cycle.

I love all this help. I can take more pictures or I can describe more of what I see, if it helps.IMG_6026.JPG
Cheers,
Max
 

WNC Bonsai

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If you put it outside now that it has started to leaf out you will kill it. Your best bet is to nurse it theough the rest of the winter then move it outside once temps are above freezing. Then allow it to acclimate to your climate over the summer, being careful to limit intense sunlight so as not to burn the foliage. Next fall you can figure out a way to winterize it outside.
 

sorce

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@Brent Sais after 1000 hours of dormancy you are good to go

"You" maybe, not the tree though, at least not without all the other needs met.

This is a dangerous statement.

Northern fear in fact.

The trees never get that memo when it freezes in May.

Sorce
 
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