side grafting acer rubrum

drew33998

Masterpiece
Messages
2,027
Reaction score
1,274
Location
Jacksonville, Fl
USDA Zone
8-9
I have some very nice acer rubrum(8-10" diameter trunks) that i have trunk chopped. I am thinking of grafting on some japanese maple cuttings, havent decided which yet. Does anyone have any experience grafting these particular two species?
 

sfhellwig

Mame
Messages
192
Reaction score
1
Location
Pittsburg, KS
USDA Zone
6a
I am not highly experienced in grafting but have studied it quite a bit. Just haven't gotten the field experience to back it up. I can tell you that those two species are not compatible. A quick search finds "Acer palmatum cultivar scions can be grafted to Acer japonicum rootstock and vice versa." Other Acer match up but not the two you suggest.

Another search finds "For example, Acer rubrum and Acer saccharinium are in the series 'Rubra'". I don't know if that makes them graftable or not. Neither are real strong bonsai choices. I personally would just grow out the trunk chops and play with a larger tree, see what comes out. Red maple is not widely chosen but it has been used. I grow Silver maples just to have deciduous stock to play with. None of them will ever look nice and I must insure none of them are ever left to grow large. But they are experimentation stock.
 

jk_lewis

Masterpiece
Messages
3,818
Reaction score
1,118
Location
Western NC
USDA Zone
7-8
I have some very nice acer rubrum(8-10" diameter trunks) that i have trunk chopped. I am thinking of grafting on some japanese maple cuttings, havent decided which yet. Does anyone have any experience grafting these particular two species?

WHY? I can't think of any two maples that are more unlike than these two..
 

rockm

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,734
Reaction score
12,637
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
"For example, Acer rubrum and Acer saccharinium are in the series 'Rubra'"

Acer rubrum and saccharinum are North American species. Acer palmatum is Asian. Grafting them may take, it may not.I did a quick search and found this rule of thumb "Plants of the same botanical genus and species can be successfully grafted. Some different species can be grafted too, apparently, but inter-species grafts may be weak, short lived or may not unite."

Species that can be successfully grafted onto one another have to be related sometimes closely--lemon stock can be grafted onto orange stock. Plums and apricots can be grafted to one another, as can pears and quince.

It depends...haven't heard of successful grafts of Acer Palmatum onto Acer Rubrum--not much call for that commercially...
 

Dav4

Drop Branch Murphy
Messages
11,478
Reaction score
22,729
Location
North Georgia/lived in MA until 2009
USDA Zone
7b
I seem to recall reading somewhere about grafting A. palmatum onto A. rubrum (I'm thinking maybe one of Dirr's books)...the grafts were initially successful but, ultimately, short-lived.
 

sfhellwig

Mame
Messages
192
Reaction score
1
Location
Pittsburg, KS
USDA Zone
6a
I guess I shouldn't have said I had studied quite a bit considering I don't own a copy of Dirr's propagation book (or the Grafter's Handbook). If it's been done then it's possible but as pointed out, not likely to be successful. I was referencing commonly known and accepted grafting stocks. Certain Genus/species are more accepting than others. Examples I have read about: The White Oak family (White, Swamp White, English, Burr) is highly compatible but the Red Oak family is completely un-graftable (not widely accepted at least). The stone fruits (peach, plum, cherry, nectarine) are so compatible that they sell fruit cocktail trees. I just saw a triple cherry (common species) this weekend.

Acer is a highly graftable Genus but there are many species among it. I believe the Rubrum to Palmatum is a hard stretch. This is my understanding based on the trees I have looked into grafting.
 

Zach Smith

Omono
Messages
1,507
Reaction score
2,765
Location
St. Francisville, LA
USDA Zone
8
I have some very nice acer rubrum(8-10" diameter trunks) that i have trunk chopped. I am thinking of grafting on some japanese maple cuttings, havent decided which yet. Does anyone have any experience grafting these particular two species?

Have you had much luck trunk-chopping red maple and keeping the trunk from rotting out? If so, can you share any tips? This species is notorious for dying back, rotting out or just dying period when you try to work with larger specimens.

Zach
 

drew33998

Masterpiece
Messages
2,027
Reaction score
1,274
Location
Jacksonville, Fl
USDA Zone
8-9
red maple

Yes, i was skeptical as to if these two species could be grafted, however i see that it isn't advisable. I havent had much experience with trunk chopping acer rubrum. It was something i just decided to do since i have a yard full of unwanted maples, and a small(ever-growing) collection of bonsai. If anything the acer rubrum will give me a good practice media. I will try to post some pics of them soon. thanks for all the advice
 

BUBBAFRGA

Mame
Messages
203
Reaction score
5
Location
Darien, GA
I gould give it a try. We discuss this yesterday at Club Funciton (North Forida Bonsai Club) while no one has done it, does not mean it cannot be done. A lot of people say Acer Rubrum does not make good bonsai but I have seen some nice ones. Van Batten had some and Paul (http://bonsainut.com/forums/member.php?u=438) has several that look great.
 

reg-i

Sapling
Messages
38
Reaction score
3
Location
Stuart, Florida
USDA Zone
10
heres a smaller trunk chop I started working this season what does anyone think about trident maple to rubrum
maples021.jpg
 

crhabq

Mame
Messages
105
Reaction score
0
Location
albuquerque, nm
USDA Zone
7
Drew,
I don't know if the graft would work - my belief is that it would not. But Acer p. grafted onto Acer p. is very often not good for bonsai as the graft union is unsightly. Unless grafted low specifically for bonsai, the graft union looks just like that - a big old ugly graft union.
On a larger acer r. trunk a high graft would have the same or even more of an ugly graft union. What would be the point of a low graft on a large trunk? Maybe multiple low grafts to make a single trunk forest type of tree would work, maybe.
But the question to me is even if it did work, would it ever make a good bonsai considering the graft unions most likely would be butt ugly.
Something to consider.
Ray
 

reg-i

Sapling
Messages
38
Reaction score
3
Location
Stuart, Florida
USDA Zone
10
my point being would be to increase the hardiness you see im in zone 10 where acer rubrum is the only native maple that does well here. Well I can grow tridents but not as well as rubrums I did just acquire with much much searching and then had to get seed from australia was the Taiwan trident M. which is supposed to be hardier then the common trident I wouldn't just graft a jap maple to a rubrum cause I wanted to
 

jk_lewis

Masterpiece
Messages
3,818
Reaction score
1,118
Location
Western NC
USDA Zone
7-8
I'm betting the graft wouldn't take, but it won't hurt much to give it a try; you may make a discovery.

Acer rubrum can make nice bonsai, but it is a VERY difficult job.
 

good_ol_jr77

Sapling
Messages
36
Reaction score
0
What about grafting the species with a cultivar with smaller leaves, tighter internodes and vigorous growth like the ever popular A. Rubrum 'autumn flame'?
 

Similar threads

Top Bottom