Slanting JBP

[Grizz]

There are some major problems with the current style of my acquired JBP.


My thoughts were to eliminate branch 1 or 2, and then let the weak bud slowly fill in. The reverse taper is a major concern. Will it ever blend into the taper? Or, Should I just cut the top off put it in the ground and give this guy a whole new direction for growth?

Any suggestions?

 

[Adair M]

I couldn't really tell from the photos where your planned pruning would be. (I couldn't match up the two photos.)

But... the straight trunk is of more concern than choosing branches. Is it bendable at all?

I can't really see the nebari, but that tree would almost make a better Formal Upright than slant.

That said, with the application of heavy wire, and some mechanical advantage, you could put some bends in that trunk.

 

[Ang3lfir3]

as Adair mentioned.... the biggest issue is the trunk... the "reverse taper" you pointed out is of little to no concern at this point... you may eventually need to remove ONE of those two branches but only if the design calls for it...

right now the thing you really need to be concerned about (besides finding out if there is any sort of decent nebari) is putting from serious movement in that trunk.... luck you... you are in Northern Cali .... find a local club .... get someone to help you bend the trunk .... look after the tree and in 2 years you should be able to work on it again ...

 

[Grizz]

Picture of branch location in reference to tree as well as nebari.

It seams that so far there is an agreement that the Slanting style is not liked. This current style has poor nebari location, the front has the nebari in the back, so a change is due.

Thanks for the idea for a formal upright. The trunk is bendable but I think I should wait until winter to do manipulation or cutting. I'm just trying to learn the basics of maintenance.

I do need to join a club, but my current schedule does not allow for that.

 

[Ang3lfir3]

its not so much that the slanting style is the issue ... its that the trunk in straight and lacks any real interest.... there is a start to some nebari there so that's useful.. now the trunk needs some character....

re: formal upright .... this looks easy ... but its not... its extremely difficult to truly create a credible formal upright ... if you think about it... it makes a ton of sense... you have to overcome the most boring trunk line on earth (straight) and build dynamism and character into the tree... through the foliage pads that is far harder than it might seem at first.

get some big wire... take a shot of courage and put some movement in the tree.... it'll be better for it in the long run... that's my thoughts at least

 

[iant]

I wouldn't bother thinking about bending. I'd keep the branches below 1 and 2 candle pruned and tight and let everything above grow wild for 4-5 years and then do a trunk chop just below 1 and 2. Then you can use one of the lower branches as the new leader and keep the other tight as your first branch. That will give you some movement in the trunk as it will have a change in direction at one of the lowest branches (the new leader.)
Ian

 

[Ang3lfir3]

I wouldn't bother thinking about bending. I'd keep the branches below 1 and 2 candle pruned and tight and let everything above grow wild for 4-5 years and then do a trunk chop just below 1 and 2. Then you can use one of the lower branches as the new leader and keep the other tight as your first branch. That will give you some movement in the trunk as it will have a change in direction at one of the lowest branches (the new leader.)
Ian

whats the point of doing all that without adding some movement in the trunk below those areas??? that gives you 4-5 yrs of growth with a trunk that has movement.... nothing stops you from chopping a trunk with movement.... but lack of said movement can prevent a trunk from being usable in the future...

again just my thoughts on the topic.... I never see a reason to avoid adding drama to an otherwise boring trunk ....

 

[iant]

Yes I agree with you Ang3lfir3 if the bottom segment is straight and longer than a few inches or so. If the lowest branch (i.e. new leader) is only 2-3 inches off the ground then my eye doesn't get too bored traveling that distance before a bend.
Ian

 

[Adair M]

I would still bend the trunk between the nebari and the first branch, if I could.

 

[Grizz]

Even with my lack of experience I can see that the tree is far from being on its way to being a "not boring" example of bonsai. I purchased the tree for the bottom six inches. I just don't see many slanting JBP here on BN. That is why the post started as slanting JBP.

Will I keep the design? Maybe. Will it need more movement? Certainly

Time and experience will train this tree into something for sure.

 

[Grizz]

I came back from vacation the tree was on automatic water system; however it is very stressed. I believe it did not get enough water. The tree did get moved from the bay area where the climate is a bit more stable. Some of the stress could be climate change as well. I did have osmicote on it, so I scraped it off. Thinking it may have been too much of a change in soil perimeters. Many of the needles turned brown, but not all.

Should I perform a trunk chop, or should I just let it be to see if it makes it.

 

[Dav4]

Trunk chopping a weak tree isn't a good idea...leave it alone other then water and sun. I'd maybe flush the soil, too, assuming that the osmocote could have delivered a large amount of fertilizer salts into the soil which may be sitting in the root zone right now, causing problems. Good luck

 

[TheSteve]

Pine don't often turn brown within days of an insult. when was it last repotted? I know you said you acquired it but you don't say when. I'm betting on a bad repot, not a lack of water here.

That being said, If it was in full sun for days on end in 100 degree weather with no water, it could happen. Or if it was under glass.... but I don't think that's the problem here (glass).

 

[Ang3lfir3]

I came back from vacation the tree was on automatic water system; however it is very stressed. I believe it did not get enough water. The tree did get moved from the bay area where the climate is a bit more stable. Some of the stress could be climate change as well. I did have osmicote on it, so I scraped it off. Thinking it may have been too much of a change in soil perimeters. Many of the needles turned brown, but not all.

Should I perform a trunk chop, or should I just let it be to see if it makes it.

Do nothing .... at least right now... a picture would be useful just to get a clear state of the health of the tree....

major work should only be carried out on healthy strong trees ....

your climate changes are probably not the issue its very rare for something like that to make a difference at least in JBP

 

[Grizz]

The tree seams to be holding on. Pictures soon to follow.

 

[Grizz]

Many of the needles have fallen off, and of those that have not, i have manually removed.

Suggestions welcomed.

The tree has been moved to a spot in which is gets half day sun then shade for the rest of the day.

 

[Dav4]

In hate to say it, but the tree appears to be dead/dying and there isn't anything to do. All I can suggest is to only water when the soil is almost dry.

 

[Grizz]

Buds have began to break through. Would removing future unwanted branches with no needles help this stressed tree?

 

[Ang3lfir3]

at this point ... just leave the tree alone and feed it .... that's it .... leave the buds alone and let them strengthen the tree