Slash Pine Yardadori experiment.

Vance Wood

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LOL, I have known that for many years.

ed

Yah me too----sucks don't it? But I made the decision several years ago to stop being my own worst enemy and start doing those things I know should be done, not tomorrow, not next week, not next year but today. I have found with myself that some times my enthusiasm is at it's greatest intensity at the times when the seasons will not allow me to do anything about it.
 

Lancaster

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Ed - The short needled pine we have here in my neck of the woods in FL is called "sand pine" or pinus clausa.

I have a few larger ones in my yard. I plan to give them a try here in the near future. Foliage seems more suitable for bonsai than a slash pine..... I will let you know once I figure it out for myself.
 

Adair M

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LOL about being "my own worst enemy"!

I can totally relate. So, since I'm now "beyond middle age", I decided that if I ever wanted to have superior trees, I needed to stop messing around. So, I decided to enroll in Boon's "Intensive Series" of classes to learn the best practices.

I do not regret it. I've only been to one, so far. But the information I've brought back home has allowed me to improve my existing trees immensely.

Ed,

I really think that JBP would fit your lifestyle better than other pines. They prefer warmer climates. Since you winter in Florida, and JBP do well there, you could take JBP to Florida for the winter. And you could certainly take them back up to Ohio for the summer.

As to why you have killed your previous ones? I don't know. I suspect you may have done too much all at once. But try them again.
 

edprocoat

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Adair I think I did way too much with the first one at one time. I was used to Juni's and Ficus. The second one was a flea market vendor and thinking back on it, it probably about the same quality as your average Wal-Mart/Home depot Bonsai to start out with, it was in potting soil and started dying within a week of being put into a better medium.

I too think JBP'S would suit me, its just getting one thats not a fortune and looks like something I would want. Moving as I do I can't deal with one that would need a large grow pot to grow out, putting the JBP in the ground in Ohio would surely kill it, same in Florida as the summers can be very dry for long periods of time. It seems like I see reasonable JBP's, $100-$150 range, that are really not much more than twigs. These have been grown in good medium and containers and have nebari but they would take years to become something. The other JBP's I see are nearly finished, I am not in to taking care of anothers tree especially something that I would have to pay $500 + for. I enjoy working with them, watching them grow, wiring them changing them to what I see them being and in the nice/pricey examples you see thats already been done.

ed
 

Adair M

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Ed,

I don't live in Ohio, so I can't speak to whether a JBP in the ground would survive or not. I'll let others let you know their experiences.

As to getting a decent JBP for a reasonable price...

George Murakana sells on ebay. His JBP sell from $75 to $125 (plus about $25 for shipping). They've been started in the ground, and usually they have 1 inch to 1 1/2 inch trunks, and are usually about 10 inches tall. He's kept the lower branches trimmed back, they're Mikawa, so they bud back well. In short, while they're not "instant" bonsai, they have decent characteristics that make them excellent trees to start learning JBP techniques, and within a couple of years, you would have something pretty nice.

I have one that I bought from George, and I've enjoyed working on it.
 

Vance Wood

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Adair I think I did way too much with the first one at one time. I was used to Juni's and Ficus. The second one was a flea market vendor and thinking back on it, it probably about the same quality as your average Wal-Mart/Home depot Bonsai to start out with, it was in potting soil and started dying within a week of being put into a better medium.

I too think JBP'S would suit me, its just getting one thats not a fortune and looks like something I would want. Moving as I do I can't deal with one that would need a large grow pot to grow out, putting the JBP in the ground in Ohio would surely kill it, same in Florida as the summers can be very dry for long periods of time. It seems like I see reasonable JBP's, $100-$150 range, that are really not much more than twigs. These have been grown in good medium and containers and have nebari but they would take years to become something. The other JBP's I see are nearly finished, I am not in to taking care of anothers tree especially something that I would have to pay $500 + for. I enjoy working with them, watching them grow, wiring them changing them to what I see them being and in the nice/pricey examples you see thats already been done.

ed

Have you considered Scots Pine? They seem to thrive in a diverse number of environments, they back bud readily, they produce short needles nice trunks and good bark in a short amount of time and are no where as difficult (IMHO) as JBP. Just a thought. PS: You can get the kind of material I think you are looking for, for a lot less money than JBP.
 

edprocoat

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I actually have never seen a Scots pine in person. I have been to many nurseries and unless they have a different name, have never came across one. I have seen some online pictures of them as Bonsai though.

ed
 

Adair M

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Vance,

Scots Pine is a Northern tree. (Scotland is WAY north...) I think he'd do better with a JBP.

JBP are not hard if you know what to do. Problem is, there is a LOT of mis-information about JBP. The key is to get good info.

Brian Van Fleet's photo-essay is about the most complete and accurate and concise source I know of to learn the basic JBP techniques.
 

Vance Wood

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Vance,

Scots Pine is a Northern tree. (Scotland is WAY north...) I think he'd do better with a JBP.

JBP are not hard if you know what to do. Problem is, there is a LOT of mis-information about JBP. The key is to get good info.

Brian Van Fleet's photo-essay is about the most complete and accurate and concise source I know of to learn the basic JBP techniques.

Your advise about JBP is probably correct but your impression of Scots Pine is inaccurate. Socts Pine exists as far North as the Arctic Circle. You can't go farther North than that, and it exists as far South as the South of Spain.
 

Adair M

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Interesting, Vance... My quick web search says Scots Pine's natural range went from Engand east to Siberia, and as far south as the Balkans and Black Sea.

I looked at where the Black Sea is on a globe. It's lattitude is about the same as New England. The "south of Spain", by the way, is on the same lattitude as the Carolinas/Kentucky/Virginia. Much farther north than Florida.
 

Vance Wood

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Interesting, Vance... My quick web search says Scots Pine's natural range went from Engand east to Siberia, and as far south as the Balkans and Black Sea.

I looked at where the Black Sea is on a globe. It's lattitude is about the same as New England. The "south of Spain", by the way, is on the same lattitude as the Carolinas/Kentucky/Virginia. Much farther north than Florida.

Almost anywhere in the Northern Hemisphere is North of Florida.
 

Adair M

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Yes, Vance's, it is.

Now look where Japan is. As you can see, it's not nearly as far north as the normal range as Scots Pine. It's more or less about the same as the US.

Therefore JBP do pretty well just about anywhere in the US.

Scots Pine and Mugo Pine would thrive in locations farther north.

Ed winters in Florida. I am merely advocating that he use plants that would do better where the winters are not so cold.

There is no doubt that Scots and Mugos make fine bonsai. But they need cold winters. That's not what Florida does best.
 

xtolord

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I have admitted that I am no pine expert, Ok more like a pine killer truth be told. I have tried 2 JBP's that I killed, 1 Mugho that seems to be suffering in the Fl. heat right now, as many people on here told me would happen.

I started thinking about Fl. Native pines as they are used to the heat, and get occasional freezing temps too. This would seem to suit my lifestyle as I summer in Oh. and winter in Fl. so it would get some freeze, not enough dormancy for the average pine though but seemingly suitable for a Fl. native slash pine.

I posted in another thread here somewhere, I lose posts all the time here, about how trees in nature survive and even thrive after fire. They use control burns in Fl. to control the undergrowth which chokes off trees and makes forests impassable as well as severe fire hazards when not maintained this way. I have seen where the trees not only survive, they seem to really take off after such a burn. There is data that says that slash pines that are 6 plus years old have a 93% rate of survival after a moderate crown burn, which is worse in severity than an underbrush fire that just scorches the lower bark and does not affect the crown growth. I have also read where in a burn trees as well as grasses react to fire by drawing sugars and nutrients into the roots to boost future growth and insure their survival.

My experiment ? I obtained a 4 foot tall Slash Pine from my yard. I then proceeded to do all the wrong things, first I removed the sand from the roots and cut the tap root off. Then I wired the trunk and bent it as it was mostly straight, thats two insults in the same night! It was a little tall for the trunk, which by the way has some really interesting bark for its size, so instead of cutting it off I decided to burn the top off in the hope that it would act as a tree in a natural or controlled fire and pull its nutrients into its base for energy for future regrowth. If my theory works out the tree will survive and sprout some new growth after recuperating. If it does not work I will have killed my 3rd pine. :( Either way the tree had to go as it was in the way and maybe I will get a neat Bonsai out of it in the bargain.

I will post some pictures in a day or two of what it looks like right now for reference. I know most of you will think this is crazy but it is something I have kicked around attempting for years. I have seen small trees after control burns have larger dead trees fall on them breaking them off and the fire scorching the bark black up as high as 6 feet from the ground and the remaining charred and broken trunk sprout new growth, with both crown and trunk sprouts occuring.

Wish me luck.

ed


That's kind of an old post, but it interest me cause I'm working with Slash pines too.
Mine are from nursery saplings, not collected.

The only other bonsaika that works with Slash pine with some success to my knowledge are:
Jay Wilson
http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?1631-Little-slash-pine&highlight=slash+pine

and Dorothy Schmitz
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t12073-pinus-elliottii-var-densa?highlight=elliottii


Instead of collecting, is it possible for you to acquire them from a nursery?
 
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