small japanese maple

Steve Kudela

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sorce

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from scratch

I thought that too....what @Steve Kudela said......cept down to one branch.
But not now....
Which would mean "scratch" is coming still years down the road!

As in, why worry about the fish bones cuz you're gonna cut back to that first branch anyway.....?

Forgive Me, I'm trying to word this for an aha moment instead of an assholism....

You know what.....I just realized something that's gonna make this a bit/lot longer....but it'll be good....

I was just talking to Stickroot about some disconnect between the people who buy trees, and the people who craft them....
Grow them. "From scratch" them!

It's a different mentality entirely.

So You first have to ask yourself....
Are you a buyer, or a craftsman?

See, I know you are a craftsman.
But in answering it for yourself, knowing who you are, will help you understand the important aha moment. Edit, no aha moment, a lot more hard study...sorry.

There is already limited information about trunk chops and long game. On top of that, that info is usually coupled with boring hand drawn pictures of the process....not very interesting. Whereas info on refinement is abound, and usually comes coupled with pictures of beautifully refined trees. Our brains, want towards beautiful, so that info gets retained better, and applied more.

I think this is why craftsman stay in this trap so long....it's just human nature.....to want beautiful. Hell, more so for craftsman.....we make beautiful!

So, fellow craftsman.....stuck in a trap. The same trap we all get stuck in.....

May I?

You say you dont want to start from scratch.
Which tells me you want for "soon".
Which leaves me only assuming you want for "beautiful".
(the effect of the trap)

Proper for you and your trees development, it should be the opposite....

You should want for beautiful,
And I should assume you do not care how long it takes. (and oh it takes time! Drag!)
Because you DO want for beautiful! Yes?

That's what happened up there.....
People who know better, have provided great advice, assuming you want for beautiful. They been doing this long enough to know, that even though people are allowed their own personal definition of a good bonsai, that eventually, everyone realizes there is only one way, to really get to that finished "enjoyable" product. They began as craftsman wanting beautiful, they have spent years making wrong moves only to realize that their own efforts, didn't make them happy, or their trees beautiful.

But how to express that to another craftsman?
Hopefully with a long ass drawn out explanation of craziness like this....

Feeling Catholic?
Rome wasn't built in a day!
If this is Rome.....the vets are the Romans,
When in Rome......

Anyway....that all may be hard to understand, gibberish even.
But at this point.....I don't even care....
The fact that I took an hour to type it, and with it there for you to read back on to rethink why you shouldn't hate me for saying this....

Cut the Damn Tree!

....one of many oddly labeled ladders that seem to be a chute in this game......
Meaning, without a big sign that says, THIS WAY UP, or forward, these gems of "ladders" seem like sneaky pushes down "chutes"..

One step forward.....2 back....

Sorcanalogy?
Let's say your wife wants, very specifically, a dozen roses for your anniversary.

Let's also say, she gets ill feelings over dead roses, maybe because of a loved one that passed, where a dead rose reminds her of their passing, something very heart wrenching.

You walk into the shop, and the last dozen roses has a wilting one. Unacceptable.

So you take the time to go to another shop, to get her what she wants. Even though you don't fully understand why 11 simply isn't good enough, and in the end, she rewards you so well, you forget you had to spend some time going to another shop, and you remember, it doesn't matter that you don't understand why 11 isn't good enough!
You're getting laid!

This is how you should treat yourself!
Of course the Time it Takes in bonsai, is MUCH longer than a trip to another shop.

But you be the "wife", and "you", in this analogy, and let the wisdom of vets, be the hard to understand reason for 12!
If you follow the advice of the vets, even though you don't understand why, (traps fault not your own), eventually, you will be rewarded with an excellent tree.

Or simply.....erase worry of time......
Remember the Heinz Ketchup ad?
WAIT! Be patient, good things will come!

So anyway.....
Don't really cut it.....

Along with balancing energy....
We have to balance or needs....
Of nice now, and future excellence.

For me, balancing your needs in this scenario of yours, with this tree.....

Means knowing your best tree, or future excellence, will come from that bottom section and first branch.....maintain it in its own. While Preparing it for a future chop.

And tidying up that transition up top, where you could possibly airlayer off another great, or better tree with nice movement, and some taper start. That would be my enjoyment for now.

All you have to do is imagine away the base.
Look at it from only one angle?
See into your future!

Well.....that's enough.....what else happened in my conversation with Stickroot......

Is that amidst some mad rant like this, I unknowingly dropped an idea in his head..

I hope, that this madness.....

Will drop an idea into someone's head!

Sorce
 

sorce

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Didn't really need all of the rest.

I know! And Thank You!

Except for I did, too!

Sux!

Ah well, I have absolutely nothing else to do with my time!

And this actually helps, cuz if that were taken as it is supposed to be, just as blunt fact,
There would be no reason whatsoever to spend so much time going thru these frustrating motions of........

No...I'm done!

Lol....count the sighs of relief!

Sorce
 

Cypress187

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How are you going to solve those bar branches?
 

Eric Group

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I recommend cutting to the lowest set of branches as someone recommended above. May seem like you a re starting from scratch, but that is the best way to go sometimes... What about the tree above point is appealing? Nothing in my eyes. It it telephone pole straight with a bunch of bar branches... Not much worth saving, and nothi that will develop into some stunning tree years down the road. You already said you ARE starting from scratch with the roots... Right? Well the order of development is generally roots/ trunk first then branches.. So, if you are starting from scratch with the roots... You have not set the tree back by starting over with the top as well... That low cut would give your static, no taper having tree both low movement and taper and set you up for a better tree in the long run regardless of the size you eventually settle on. If you had nice movement already, healed over scars and we'll set branches, perhaps this would not be a wise move, but AJ do not apsee any of that existing currently in this tree.

If you decide t0make this cut now- instead of waiting 5 years down the road to do it once you have learned more and stared at your tree stubournly refusing to "start over" because you didn't have the patience of vision to see it earlier... (Sound like I have experience being "THAT GUY"? Yeah... I do)- leave both branches coming from that node. This way you have your new apex (the branch on the left) and a branch well positioned on the outside of the cut which will eventually heal into a curve... You also have two branches well positioned to work on healing that scar which should heal it over a lot quicker... Not a big cut, so it should heal in a year or so if the tree is allowed to grow... Lean it a little more right the next time you repot, wire that first left branch up a little bit, and let the right branch grow too... You should get 3-4 new buds to pop around the base of that right branch, which you can shoe from to be the new branch on the outside of the curve eventually after you use the existing one to heal the scar, because it looks to be kind of big and at a bad angle for what you want there.

Obviously, it is your tree and you can do what you like, but if you take this advice, you probably wind up with a better tree and you get there faster than is you keep it the way it is...

JMHO
 

Dalmat

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I know! And Thank You!

Except for I did, too!

Sux!

Ah well, I have absolutely nothing else to do with my time!

And this actually helps, cuz if that were taken as it is supposed to be, just as blunt fact,
There would be no reason whatsoever to spend so much time going thru these frustrating motions of........

No...I'm done!

Lol....count the sighs of relief!

Sorce
JM 2.png

Feelin better...?
 

sorce

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Dalmat....I don't know you well.

Kinda vibing on sarcastic.
I don't want to ignore it....

I just don't understand.

Because...

So anyway.....
Don't really cut it.....

And no....because the truth is....the base isn't all that great. But that would be clouding the already cloudy point and it could be fixed anyway.

Now....if it was real...

Yes...because I love it when people get good advice, and they come back like..

Blauw! Did that shit !

But its Saturday....
Gangster shit happens on Sunday.

There is another long ass explanation, of what just went on too......

Hahahahaha

Sorce
 

sorce

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O my god , totally wrong. I just tried to make OP feel more comfortable with taking a good advice.

My complete and total apologies Dalmat!

I was just mad funked over "some other shit".

I tried to tread easy ground cuz I knew I was emotional....

Too much? Such is I!

Love and Peace!
And thank you!

Sorce
 

sorce

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Sorce is tha Man...;)

Knowledge is Power.

Can't reword that!

I was walking up my stairs earlier....
Just thinking about what makes a person truly righteous.....

Yesterday, I came to something...
Mmmm....see that thread!

Sorce
 
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