So I bought a gallon of Dyna-Gro and it was full of cystals

Smoke

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Counterions are the opposite charged particles that attract each other to make new molucules. In the instance of salt, sodium is the counterion of chorine. The counterions are anions and cations, or anode and cathode.

In soil, the soil is charged and humic acid provides the counterion, allowing the fertilizer to be "attracted" to the soil.

This is what is meant in a soils "cation exchange capacity".(CEC)
 
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Smoke

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Soil rich in organics, loam, has a high CEC while inert soils made from inorganic substances like clay, lava and sand have low or inert CEC's.

Soil becomes more "fertile" when the CEC is high due to organics, or (humates).

One can provide the catylist artifically by introducing humates in the form of humic acid to the inorganic, inert substrates preferred in bonsai.
 

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If you take a sultana and drop it into a glass of water the sultana will inflate like a balloon. This is due to water moving into the fruit. This is osmosis, the inside of the sultana has a lot of sugar in it and this attracts water into the fruit. The skin of the sultana is a membrane which allows water in, but will not allow sugar out. This creates an osmotic potential and water is sucked into the fruit.

Plant cells are the same, they have a high salt content and a membrane that will not allow salts out (unless the cell chooses to let it out). Water is forced into the cell by the osmotic potential and dissolved ions may be carried along with it, which is what happens during transpiration. Plants may also take up dissolved ions manually, such as potassium, iron. The concentration of the cell cytoplasm is closely regulated for charge and dissolved salts, so if a plant takes up a lot of potassium and it starts to change the salt content of the cytoplasm, the cell may eject another ion to balance the charge, or cytoplasm concentration. So it might eject sodium, for example. This is the counter ion.

Fertilizer solutions high in dissolved salts reduce the osmotic potential and if high enough, prevent water from entering the root cells. This is called salt burn, and why EC is so important. Accumulated salts from failing to flush the potting mix regularly and routinely is another way salt burn occurs. This by the way, has absolutely nothing to do with CEC.

Sodium and chloride are plant micro nutrients, but there is no need for them to be added to fertilizers because sodium and chloride are common everywhere. Even if you use RO water there will be sufficient sodium and chloride in the water for plant health. Many micro nutrients in hydroponic solutions are there because they are selling points, buyers know that Nickel, or chromium, or sodium are considered essential micro nutrients, so they pick products that have them, but most of these exotic micro nutrients are never deficient in plants. In fact it is extremely difficult to induce sodium or nickel deficiency in plants.

Paul
 

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Thank you Paul, that is a very easy to understand explanation. The sultana illustration is very good. (must be fun to watch too...)
 

lordy

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I bought a quart of DynaGro 7-9-5 in March. It began to crystalize during the summer. I can shake the jug til I have tennis elbow and it wont mix back in. I will try the dilution method too. But having to do this makes me want to try a different fert. I may just continue what I did before buying DynaGro: rotate regularly between several types of miracle-grow varieties. I have stuff for roses, tomatoes, bloom boosters, acid lovers, etc. I didnt notice any real diff when I started on the DynaGro anyway. As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, my trees may have gone into a bit of a collective slump due to the goodies in DynaGro going out of solution in the jug. Kinda like when I switched my dogs to a premium food and they hated it. Doesnt really do any good if they dont eat it, right?? :confused:
 

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As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, my trees may have gone into a bit of a collective slump due to the goodies in DynaGro going out of solution in the jug.

What you're seeing with the DynaGro is called supersaturation. The crystals form because the solution holding them is too concentrated, the same way that you make rock candy by putting two cups of sugar and a cup of water and heating it. Then you put a string in it and cool it off it starts crystalizing back out of solution.

If you can't get the DynaGro to re-disolve then use more water or better - hot water. If agitation in hot water doesn't do it then I'd be quite surprised. Regardless, there's still a lot of nutrient left even with the crystals.

I would also note in response to Paul's post that Sodium is not a miconutrient, although Chloride is. Sodium actively disrupts the absorption of potassium which is an essential micronutrient and also impedes the transpiration process. It causes both dessication of leaves and nutrient deficiency symptoms in almost all plants when concentrations in water exceed about 20-60 ppm depending on the species.
 

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Regarding Eric's note:

What to do now?

I'm not highly motivated to find the plant physiology text to familiarize myself with the details (its packed away somewhere), or really care about mounting an argument, which is fairly academic anyways.

But, Sodium has been known to be essential for C4 plants for a while now.

It's generally agreed the halophytes need for sodium is greater then any other higher plant.

But I don't think anyone has tested every species. Generally speaking, the limiting amount of sodium is so small, ie plant needs are so miniscule, that they get all the sodium they need from the environment. In the article I read, which was an interview with the scientist who led the research, they had to filter the air in the glass house because atmospheric dust had enough sodium in it to satisfy test plant needs.

You are quite correct in saying that high sodium concentrations can be harmful to plants.

Regards,

Paul
 

Eric Schrader

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...Sodium has been known to be essential for C4 plants for a while now.

It's generally agreed the halophytes need for sodium is greater then any other higher plant.
...
You are quite correct in saying that high sodium concentrations can be harmful to plants.

Regards,

Paul

Paul, you are quite correct, so my apologies. In all my troubles with the tap water around here I sometimes have forgotten a few details. I am curious though and perhaps you know - I'm under the impression that most bonsai species do not require sodium as they use other biochemical pathways for carbon fixation....?

Cheers,

Eric
 
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