So... Who's tree is it?

[Adair M]

Over on the National Exihibition thread, there's a lively discussion about trees being shown where most of the styling was done by someone other than the owner.

So, who's tree is it?

Perhaps we can discuss all the possibilities on this thread so as to not further derail that one.

I'll start:

This tree:



This is how it looked when I bought it from Boon two years ago. Unstyled. Boon bought it 17 years prior. In Japan, he imported it. It's been repotted several times and it had been cut back several times, but to the best of my knowledge it had never been "styled". Boon was waiting until it had matured. When he bought it, it still had smooth bark, and now the trunks have rough bark. Still not yet "plated" bark. Had it been styled in Japan prior to Boon purchasing it? Who knows...

Any way, six months after I bought it, Daisaku Nomoto gave it the initial styling:



I got to watch. I videoed Daisaku going the rough pruning. Daisaku has won at Kokufu-ten. So, for me, it's an honor to own a tree Daisaku styled. He showed me a branch he thought needed to come off. It was the largest branch on the entire tree! And he asked my permission to remove it. Of course, I said yes! Then he handed me the cutters!



So, yeah, I guess it's my tree now! Lol!!!

Daisaku had fun, too:



Anyway, I got to watch him wire it. Watching him work was educational. Boon taught me (and continues to teach me) wiring. Watching Daisaku, I learned many subtle techniques of how to use the little Masakuni wire scissors to manipulate the wired branches. I have to say, watching/learning from him raised my wiring/styling skills and awareness up a notch.

Here's an in progress of wiring shot:



More...

 

[Adair M]

And here's the final image when he was done:



Now, I take credit for nothing other than having the good sense to buy this tree and having Daisaku style it. Oh, yeah, I did prune a branch...

Since then, it's been at Boon's, recovering from the work. I did have it reported. And now, I've brought it home. I feel that my climate will be better for it than Boon's. And Boon agrees. So, I now have it at home.

I'll take a picture of it at home and post it later.

So, is it my tree?

 

[quietobserver]

Keep 'em coming Adair.

#bored_at_work

And if you can water or wire it, its yours lol

 

[GrimLore]

So, is it my tree?

Of course, and you deserve credit for seeing it has had a proper home, care, and attention. Not many are willing to go that route but I find it proper and actually very common overseas...

Sure is pretty too!

Grimmy

 

[Tieball]

Nice work Daisaku....mighty fine!

At a national exhibition....just curious.....does it have separate lines for Owner/Submitted By......and....for Styled By/Created By?

Perhaps there should be:
Owner/Submitted By: __________
Styled By: __________
Maintenance By: _________

I thought I read once that a tree has to be totally under the owners care for 3 years before an exhibit entry. Maybe that was more for local or regional shows though. National shows having very different rules probably.

 

[namnhi]

Sorry buddy it is not your yet. I assume you have this one at Boon still. You haven't done anything other than writing checks.

 

[coh]

Sorry buddy it is not your yet. I assume you have this one at Boon still. You haven't done anything other than writing checks.

He said he's brought it home and, presumably, that means he is watering/fertilizing. Does that change anything?

 

[Anthony]

Hmmm Sifu,

hard to say from our point of view. Trees down here are designed around the rules of Classical Sculpture and Traditional Oil Painting.

You might remember that - Naka - space for the birds to fly through bit.

The application of negative space to s design is something oil painters have doing for centuries.

The sculpture bit is first get the tree healthy [ lush ] with main branches guidance along the way
and then from lush remove what you don't need. 3d working.
[ Not iron fast rules / practices ]

Opinions are taken into account, but no interest in having Japanese/Chinese teachers actually working
the tree.

So what you folks do outside would seem to be pointless to us.

Guess it goes with our independent mentality, make our pots, make our soils, and if need be [ Gogeerah ] make
our own tools.
Good Day
Anthony

* However we are always happy for expose to subtle practices [ open tops of trees for example ........... words of Sifu ]
No need to re-invent the wheel.

 

[Paradox]

It's your tree.

The objection was that should you now be allowed to put it in a show and win an award and get credit for it. Yes you own the tree but from the description above, you did not do the current styling (?) although arguably you maintained it in the last 2 years.

The person objecting thinks you shouldnt be allowed to show a tree unless you did all the work.

Most of us don't give a damn who did the work, because we know someone did it. We just want to see and appreciate nice trees.

*edit* I see the objector posted before I got done.

 

[Giga]

Maybe the current "steward" is the correct term.

 

[jeremy_norbury]

The last person that owns it is the only person that can show it....right? I mean there's nobody else that can.

We are forever indebted to those that got our stock to the point where we took it over.

I think of it a bit like classic cars. Did we restore it, did we find it in a barn and have it "tarted up" - but we sure as hell didn't build it originally. Can I still show it, sure I can!

 

[Tieball]

Hmmm Sifu,

hard to say from our point of view. Trees down here are designed around the rules of Classical Sculpture and Traditional Oil Painting.

You might remember that - Naka - space for the birds to fly through bit.

The application of negative space to s design is something oil painters have doing for centuries.

The sculpture bit is first get the tree healthy [ lush ] with main branches guidance along the way
and then from lush remove what you don't need. 3d working.
[ Not iron fast rules / practices ]

Opinions are taken into account, but no interest in having Japanese/Chinese teachers actually working
the tree.

So what you folks do outside would seem to be pointless to us.

Guess it goes with our independent mentality, make our pots, make our soils, and if need be [ Gogeerah ] make
our own tools.
Good Day
Anthony

* However we are always happy for expose to subtle practices [ open tops of trees for example ........... words of Sifu ]
No need to re-invent the wheel.

I like that independent mentality. Mighty fine!

 

[namnhi]

He said he's brought it home and, presumably, that means he is watering/fertilizing. Does that change anything?

Of course if he brought it home and have reported it then it is his tree. He has been taking care of it.

 

[Adair M]

He said he's brought it home and, presumably, that means he is watering/fertilizing. Does that change anything?

It's home now.

I took advantage of the transportation available to bring trees East via Rochester.

@namnhi, so who's tree is it? Boon owned it for 17 years. I've owned it for 2. Daisaku styled it a year and a half ago. It's now living at my house.

Looking at the wire, some of it is beginning to cut in. I may have to remove and replace some of it. Certainly not all of it.

Oh, after Daisaku wired it out, a couple branches died. He had to do quite a bit of bending to lower some of them. After they died, I did cut them short, but left them on as Jin's.

Does that count? Lol???

 

[coh]

He's had it at his house for a little over 2 weeks.

 

[Adair M]

Nice work Daisaku....mighty fine!

At a national exhibition....just curious.....does it have separate lines for Owner/Submitted By......and....for Styled By/Created By?

Perhaps there should be:
Owner/Submitted By: __________
Styled By: __________
Maintenance By: _________

I thought I read once that a tree has to be totally under the owners care for 3 years before an exhibit entry. Maybe that was more for local or regional shows though. National shows having very different rules probably.

I believe it's common in Japan to give credit to the owner and stylist.

Not so much here in the US.

 

[coh]

Some of that information (history, previous owners, who styled it) is contained in the National Exhibition Albums.

One of the fun things about attending a show like the National, is the opportunity to talk to people about the trees they are showing. You can find out details about the history and who has worked on the trees. I haven't yet run into anyone who seemed unwilling to acknowledge that someone else did much of the work on their tree (except when they did it, of course).

 

[Adair M]

Here's a more recent picture taken while repotting:



We tried this pot that I had bought for it, but it turned out the nebari was too wide!



So, I elected to go with the grey pot instead.

Do I get any points for that?

 

[A Random User]

And here's the final image when he was done:

View attachment 118389

Now, I take credit for nothing other than having the good sense to buy this tree and having Daisaku style it. Oh, yeah, I did prune a branch...

Since then, it's been at Boon's, recovering from the work. I did have it reported. And now, I've brought it home. I feel that my climate will be better for it than Boon's. And Boon agrees. So, I now have it at home.

I'll take a picture of it at home and post it later.

So, is it my tree?

I will ask a simple question...
If you show it tomorrow and it wins an Award... who would you thank?
Yourself?

 

[Anthony]

Usual response on trees.

Lives more than 100 years, owner dies and is forgotten.

Please list the owners of -------- Mishi Shibi [ grass on the road side ]

Storm in a teacup.
Good Day
Anthony