So you want to be a Professional?

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I invite you to take a look at the winners of the WBC Bonsai Olympics, look at the winning trees, look at the scores given by some of the best artists in the world, but most importantly, look at the judges comments.

Comments such as these have started flame wars, ego battles, have gotten people banned, and caused hundreds of heated posts on forums. Yet, along with these comments came high enough scores to win.

Remember, these comments were toward the work of well known and respected bonsai artists, none were directed at the artist, just the bonsai.







Will
 

JasonG

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The only negative or questionable comments came from Nick...which doesn't suprise me in the least. Some nice trees there...

Congrats to the winners!
 
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The only negative or questionable comments came from Nick...which doesn't suprise me in the least. Some nice trees there...

Congrats to the winners!
I have seen all the comments, they will all be posted soon.

Some not by Nick:

"This should not be in the competition. The tree lacks form. I am quite familiar with what can be done with Silverberry, and this is a poor example"

"This looks like a bush."


Negative? Truthful? Funny? Maybe all, but I think you missed the point of the thread.

But I do agree with you, some nice trees indeed. Some never seen before on the English forums.
 

JasonG

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Those comments must not have been posted yet.... I do think that those are funny, I am all for constructive criticism as it only helps raise the level of ones work.

I got the point of your original post :D

See Ya, Jason
 

Rick Moquin

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I got the point of your original post :D

See Ya, Jason
Comments such as these have started flame wars, ego battles, have gotten people banned, and caused hundreds of heated posts on forums.

... and the podium is 60% complete :rolleyes:
 

cquinn

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Comments such as these have started flame wars, ego battles, have gotten people banned, and caused hundreds of heated posts on forums.

... and the podium is 60% complete :rolleyes:
Cool, has Marco looked at it yet?
 

Klytus

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Are all the entries pictured?

If so my choices differ from the esteemed judges.

Flowering-Duranta
Tropical-Calliandra
Shohin-Neea
Deciduous-No preference,not enough contestants
Conifer-No preference,not enough contestants

As an afterhought i would like to see in the future an award for Best Shrubbery.
 
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Well, not everyone can successfully grow a catus in a salad bowl, you'll have to forgive them.



Will
 

Smoke

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Professional?

Professional what?
 

Smoke

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I invite you to take a look at the winners of the WBC Bonsai Olympics, look at the winning trees, look at the scores given by some of the best artists in the world, but most importantly, look at the judges comments.

Comments such as these have started flame wars, ego battles, have gotten people banned, and caused hundreds of heated posts on forums. Yet, along with these comments came high enough scores to win.

Remember, these comments were toward the work of well known and respected bonsai artists, none were directed at the artist, just the bonsai.


Will

Yea I bet Mike Page is feeling all rosy about the comments directed at the "tree".

I'm sure the tree is saying.." Damn, I told him this is not what a great caliber silverberry should look like, but Nooooo you had to go and embarrass me by entering".

Come on give me a break. Comments directed at a tree are directed square at the artist and no one else. Period!
 
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Mike Page

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Yea I bet Mike Page is feeling all rosy about the comments directed at the "tree".

I'm sure the tree is saying.." Damn, I told him this is not what a great caliber silverberry should look like, but Nooooo you had to go and embarress me by entering".

Come on give me a break. Comments directed at a tree are directed square at the artist and no one else. Period!
Guess i should have trained it as a formal upright.:D
 
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Yea I bet Mike Page is feeling all rosy about the comments directed at the "tree".

I'm sure the tree is saying.." Damn, I told him this is not what a great caliber silverberry should look like, but Nooooo you had to go and embarrass me by entering".

Come on give me a break. Comments directed at a tree are directed square at the artist and no one else. Period!
Sounds like you're trying to stir the pot once again, even so, you're wrong. The tree is judged, period.

Since you used Mike as an example, I hope he doesn't mind if I continue with it.

No judge told Mike he had to lose weight, get a haircut, go back to school, or dress better, Mike was not judged. More correct is that his work on a particular tree was judged, not all his work on all his trees, just that one single tree. The tree was judged, not the man.

You asked above "professional what?" Professional bonsaists would be the answer. Mike is a professional. His Black Pine took a lot of criticism when it was entered into last years AoB Awards, more when it won a sponsor award, and even more when it won a category at America's first national exhibit. Through it all he was a professional. See "The First National Bonsai Exhibition – A Cinderella Story?"

We all can learn from Mike. His professionalism ranks right up there with the likes of Lenz and Pall, both who have taken their fair share of crap and both who just let the crap roll off them, no sweat, no problems, no worries.

By the way Al, The 2009 AoB Awards are ready to start soon, we are just locking in a couple more sponsor awards for the contest. I hope we see some entries from the "put up or shut up" king entered in it this time. The Awards, after all, are the best, biggest, and most respected contest on the web, not to mention that the entries are judged by some of the most experienced, talented, and respected bonsai artists in the world.

I know Mike will be entering again this year. ;)


Will
 
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Mike Page

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Thanks Will. I appreciate your kind words.

Mike
 

jonathan

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some very nice trees indeed (if i ever get 1 close to the level of those peeps i'll be a happy boy). None the less i think it's quite hard to judge those kind of trees because of the high standards/levels.
 

Smoke

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Sounds like you're trying to stir the pot once again, even so, you're wrong. The tree is judged, period.

Since you used Mike as an example, I hope he doesn't mind if I continue with it.

No judge told Mike he had to lose weight, get a haircut, go back to school, or dress better, Mike was not judged. More correct is that his work on a particular tree was judged, not all his work on all his trees, just that one single tree. The tree was judged, not the man.

You asked above "professional what?" Professional bonsaists would be the answer. Mike is a professional. His Black Pine took a lot of criticism when it was entered into last years AoB Awards, more when it won a sponsor award, and even more when it won a category at America's first national exhibit. Through it all he was a professional. See "The First National Bonsai Exhibition – A Cinderella Story?"

We all can learn from Mike. His professionalism ranks right up there with the likes of Lenz and Pall, both who have taken their fair share of crap and both who just let the crap roll off them, no sweat, no problems, no worries.

By the way Al, The 2009 AoB Awards are ready to start soon, we are just locking in a couple more sponsor awards for the contest. I hope we see some entries from the "put up or shut up" king entered in it this time. The Awards, after all, are the best, biggest, and most respected contest on the web, not to mention that the entries are judged by some of the most experienced, talented, and respected bonsai artists in the world.

I know Mike will be entering again this year. ;)


Will

MP - "This should not be in the competition. The tree lacks form. I am quite familiar with what can be done with Silverberry, and this is a poor example"

"This should not be in the competition" Who is responsible for entering the tree in the competition?

"The tree lacks form" Who is responsible for the trees form?

"I am quite familiar with what can be done with Silverberry, and this is a poor example" Who is responsible for making the best artistic use of the material?

In all these questions it is Mike Page. The judges may critique the tree but it is up to the artist (Mike Page) to either make a decision about what is said and fix it or ignore what is said. It's always personal when we talk about bonsai. We talk about a tree, but when we speak of what is wrong we speak of what the artist didn't do right. We offer our opinion or in some cases we attack the artist. There is no way to seperate the two. It is all about tree and artist.

When it is good the artist is a hero. When it is bad you question the artists integrity, his technique, his ability to discern good from bad. The opinion can be offered with respect or with education in mind, or it can simply be a personal attack. Either way they mean the same thing.
 

Smoke

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By the way Al, The 2009 AoB Awards are ready to start soon, we are just locking in a couple more sponsor awards for the contest. I hope we see some entries from the "put up or shut up" king entered in it this time. The Awards, after all, are the best, biggest, and most respected contest on the web, not to mention that the entries are judged by some of the most experienced, talented, and respected bonsai artists in the world.

I know Mike will be entering again this year. ;)


Will

This is the biggest paragraph of hype I have ever read. If you consider the contest we are talking about in this thread, then we had more entries in old contests at BT. If you consider those that entered as the MOST EXPERINCED, TALENTED, and RESPECTED BONSAI ARTISTS IN THE WORLD, then heaven help us all.

I'm growin world class bonsai based on that sentance alone.

(EDIT)UH oh I see I mis-read that the entrants were not the "most experienced, talented and respected bonsai artists in the world, but I see that we are talking about the judges. My mistake, in that case I retract my previous statement. In hindsight of my latest faux pax maybe we could get the judges to enter their trees and have an esteemed panel of hacks be the judges. Now that would be breaking new ground in a contest.

Still alot of hype. Maybe Greg could make a "no-spin" zone for bonsai discussion.....
 
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"This should not be in the competition" Who is responsible for entering the tree in the competition?

"The tree lacks form" Who is responsible for the trees form?

"I am quite familiar with what can be done with Silverberry, and this is a poor example" Who is responsible for making the best artistic use of the material?

In all these questions it is Mike Page. The judges may critique the tree but it is up to the artist (Mike Page) to either make a decision about what is said and fix it or ignore what is said. It's always personal when we talk about bonsai. We talk about a tree, but when we speak of what is wrong we speak of what the artist didn't do right. We offer our opinion or in some cases we attack the artist. There is no way to seperate the two. It is all about tree and artist.

When it is good the artist is a hero. When it is bad you question the artists integrity, his technique, his ability to discern good from bad. The opinion can be offered with respect or with education in mind, or it can simply be a personal attack. Either way they mean the same thing.
Give it a break Al, the only person complaining is you. I guess only the people who have enough gonads to actually enter these contests are the ones with big enough gonads to take a little criticism.

I feel like I'm talking to a little leaguer's mother whose kid never got to play in a game....



This is the biggest paragraph of hype I have ever read. If you consider the contest we are talking about in this thread, then we had more entries in old contests at BT. If you consider those that entered as the MOST EXPERINCED, TALENTED, and RESPECTED BONSAI ARTISTS IN THE WORLD, then heaven help us all.
Nice try at flipping the subject Al, but that dog won't hunt. I specifically referred to the AoB Awards, 231 Entries last year from 25 countries, with some of the best artists in the world entering and also judging. I also said, "I hope we see some entries from the "put up or shut up" king entered in it this time."

AoB / KoB contests have not only set the records, but also the standard for on-line bonsai contests. You yourself called the KoB Progression contest the best contest on the web.

Want to see world class trees and professional judging at it's finest? Check out our past contests:

North American vs Europe Photo Contest

Bonsai Today / Art of Bonsai - Photo Contest

AoB Awards 2008

Bonsai Focus/Knowledge Of Bonsai Progressive Styling Contest 2007

Bonsai Focus/Knowledge Of Bonsai Progressive Styling Contest 2008

AoB / KoB Article Contest

Please list more successful on-line contests Al, enlighten us.


Still alot of hype. Maybe Greg could make a "no-spin" zone for bonsai discussion.....
No hype, no spin, just the facts.


Anything else, Al?



Will
 
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