Soil mix decision

Deep Sea Diver

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Sounds like you are learning a lot! Media is sometimes confusing. For me I look for reliability and consistency. A couple of years ago I spent countless hours trying to find the perfect mixes. In the end I found myself with four basic blends… old standbys for those working in Bonsai in the past 10 years. Yet there is always the desire to go “over the rainbow” for the perfect mix thought bouncing around in my brain…. Then I look at my work list… which includes building another little cold greenhouse and I return to Earth!

Actually if you are just growing trees out, one might question why you would even use a Bonsai mix. Ryan Neil recommends using a good nursery mix.

As I am an advocate of “the @Walter Paul Triangle” as call it (Media, Watering, Fertilizing” one day while asking him about his recent thoughts on the fertilization leg of the Triangle, I asked Walter about his thoughts on akadama.

Walter stated “ cheap akadama looses granular structure sooner or later and becomes dust which is not good for most trees. So you have to repot every couple of years as we were taught. When you have big and old collected trees you should not repot for ten years or more. Then akadama becomes dangerous. When you leave trees out in winter and they get frost on a regular basis akadama decomposes very quiclkly. Do not use when you have frost and take a long time to repot.”

Then I asked Walter, “Regarding akadama, do you have the same cautions with high temperature fired (hard) akadama?”

Walter replied, “no, only that it is expensve”

Being in a more moderate climate here I have no issues with using akadama. But I don’t buy cheap stuff. Sometimes I even recycle my media, wash it, stick it in the oven @400F for 40 minutes, cool it and sieve it. The akadama is still present, although worn down from the sieving and root breakdown. I usually have to supplement more to get my mix up to par then. Based upon these data… about 12 trials… I’d say the good stuff holds up as well as one could possibly expect.

But that said, everyone has to find their own way to the medias that work best for their trees and themselves.

Good luck on your voyage!
DSD sends
 

Ohmy222

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I quite simply use an akadama, pumice, lava mix simply because it produces great roots. I have used turface and the Napa DE product and they worked fine for top growth. The roots just didn't look quite. Pockets with poor roots, more running roots. I am sure you can grow in a lot of mixes, especially if they aren't in shallow pots but I am trying to grow a bonsai with a solid nebari from the ground up and the only mixes I have found to work are the APL mix and a heavy pumice mix. If akadama isn't your jam then just use pumice. For small stuff and pre bonsai I still use the same. You can substitute in some perlite (grade 3 is my preference). I use to grow in a simple peat/perlite mix but got tired of the long one-sided roots. These mixes give me nice 360 feeders. I use net pots too to assist.
 

Dzhokar

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Sounds like you are learning a lot! Media is sometimes confusing. For me I look for reliability and consistency. A couple of years ago I spent countless hours trying to find the perfect mixes. In the end I found myself with four basic blends… old standbys for those working in Bonsai in the past 10 years. Yet there is always the desire to go “over the rainbow” for the perfect mix thought bouncing around in my brain…. Then I look at my work list… which includes building another little cold greenhouse and I return to Earth!

Actually if you are just growing trees out, one might question why you would even use a Bonsai mix. Ryan Neil recommends using a good nursery mix.

As I am an advocate of “the @Walter Paul Triangle” as call it (Media, Watering, Fertilizing” one day while asking him about his recent thoughts on the fertilization leg of the Triangle, I asked Walter about his thoughts on akadama.

Walter stated “ cheap akadama looses granular structure sooner or later and becomes dust which is not good for most trees. So you have to repot every couple of years as we were taught. When you have big and old collected trees you should not repot for ten years or more. Then akadama becomes dangerous. When you leave trees out in winter and they get frost on a regular basis akadama decomposes very quiclkly. Do not use when you have frost and take a long time to repot.”

Then I asked Walter, “Regarding akadama, do you have the same cautions with high temperature fired (hard) akadama?”

Walter replied, “no, only that it is expensve”

Being in a more moderate climate here I have no issues with using akadama. But I don’t buy cheap stuff. Sometimes I even recycle my media, wash it, stick it in the oven @400F for 40 minutes, cool it and sieve it. The akadama is still present, although worn down from the sieving and root breakdown. I usually have to supplement more to get my mix up to par then. Based upon these data… about 12 trials… I’d say the good stuff holds up as well as one could possibly expect.

But that said, everyone has to find their own way to the medias that work best for their trees and themselves.

Good luck on your voyage!
DSD sends
I'm not re-inventing the wheel or anything.
Using the old standby's of lava and pumice.
Currently with some DE for a little more moisture retention. Might have gotten lucky, but the bags I have sift 80% into the 3/16 range.
Tried Turface but it seemed to hold too much water and particle size was a bit too small so it settled out of the mix a bit too much.

I would use akadama if it wasn't twice the cost or more of a good pumice and lava blend.
 

Deep Sea Diver

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Yep it’s pricey. Our club got pallets so it came to only 25.00 a bag, so that was decent. We’ll see what our latest pallet order prices turn out to be.

I’ve heard DE used in Europe vs akadama, and many other components, in an effort to replace akadama’s properties. It’s CEC is listed at 47 yet new data shows it more like 27.


I’m always interested in experiments with medias. Mostly for azaleas though. Not sure I’ve heard of pumice/lava with a bit of DE, but I don’t keep track a lot of others mixes. So I’ll be interested in how it works in the long term for you, especially rootwise.

Cheers
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ShadyStump

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Also loving the thoughts on hydroponics! I think once you get into the realm of 100% inorganic substrates we are also getting into the realm of hydroponics, no?
I hadn't thought of this before, but I believe you're absolutely right. Half of us are practicing modified hydroponics on trees!
With that in mind, I do believe I'll start research that more. I've always had a passing fascination with the possibilities inherent to hydroponics (largely the geometry and engineering of it), but never really got into it much.
But you're right, the concepts are very similar: control the growing environment as much as is practicable for the purpose of achieving a desired result.
 
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I have to say, I mostly erred towards a 1:1:1 mix after posting this thread. I did get some turface to experiment with cuttings. The cuttings with turface are mostly gone. If I play with it again, I'm definitely adding some organics to it to help it retain more water.

The azalea I got from Bill V appears to be in turface too, so it can't be awful for plants, but I definitely understand the "use what works for you" mentality a bit better now. I think straight turface might work but require a lot more watering, perhaps. At least here. I didn't put a ton of effort into understanding it, however maybe I should. I figured standardizing on what a lot of tutorials seem to assume you're using would make things easier.
 

Mapleminx

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How do you deal with extended periods of rain?
I cater for not drowning plants in those 3-week rain periods we can get. Which means that in summer I am watering a lot..
I’m with you on that one! So so much summer watering, but I do love those long periods of rain to catch a break…providing I am indoors of course 🤣
 

Taste

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Here in Oregon where pumice is mined, it's sold as kitty litter. No brand name though. The place where I buy mine is called Pro-Grow and sells 1/4" pumice as kitty litter too. A long time ago I found diatomaceous earth sold as kitty litter, but that was in the 90s. Maybe that's why some people have advised its use.

One reason not to trust brand name kitty litter is the possibility that deodorants have been added, which may or may not be safe for plants.
what shop are you finding this at? local myself
 

Taste

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sorry i missed the part about where you purchased it and thought that was the products name! Thank you for clarifying!
 

amiekyte

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Soil is such an "issue", that I decided the best route was to use what I know I can always get, Napa #8822, and grow what lives well in it.

The fact that it fluffs up when it freezes rather than compacting is a bonus up here.

No trees hate it. Reckon a few people do though!

Sorce
You use just straight 8822 (I'm new, so sorry if you've answered that a thousand times.)
 

sorce

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You use just straight 8822 (I'm new, so sorry if you've answered that a thousand times.)

It's certainly the only product I would consider purchasing.
I don't think I can say anything is right exclusively 8822, as most things are nursery repots with some old soil, and I'll randomly mix in anything that has structure, lava and pumice from other people's trees, bark, pretty much anything besides topsoil and clay.

Sorce
 
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