Soil mix for young trees with aspirations to become bonsai years from now?

[lwagner]

I did look through previous posts, but I did not find the answer covering what I was looking for. This is being asked because I had difficulty finding certain plants except for young 1-2 year old seedlings. As I am reading more and more about pre-bonsai and bonsai soil mixes, it is aimed towards trees that have reached the maturity that the owner wants. What about soil mixes for trees that are 1-2 years old that you want to increase speed of growth and maximize growth potential? I know you still want to have good aeration and drainage, but you want more retention of water and nutrients to be absorbed correct? I also am not able to field grow as I currently live in an apartment. Thanks for the help.

 

[Adamantium]

I know field growing is best, but I'm guessing second best is boon mix (lava, pumice, and akadama in equal parts). Grow boxes, or pond baskets, seem to be the best container.

I grow most of my pre-bonsai in terracotta pots, and have only had them for a little over a season, but they've definitely thickened up a bit.

Someone more experienced should chime in, though, because I basically just gave you a totally non-conclusive answer.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Well, as soon as you start researching soils, the expected answer you will find everywhere is: There is no absolute answer.

I come from a horticultural background, my heart lies with potting soils mixed with aerating material for pre-bonsai. However, most experienced bonsai people hate the stuff. The same difference in opinion is found about akadama, some love it, some detest it.

When in doubt, copy what others do. Read about their drawbacks and plus sides. And go your own way by asking the right questions; what do I want the soil to do, and how will my tree respond to that?

 

[sparklemotion]

@lwagner, it would be helpful to know where you are and what species of trees you are looking at.

Most folks around here prefer a "bonsai" substrate (large particles, mostly-to-all inorganic) even for growing out. Check out the thread about NAPA #8822 as an example.

 

[GrimLore]

I come from a horticultural background, my heart lies with potting soils mixed with aerating material for pre-bonsai.

I tried many types of substrate and I find the above best for growth and development, well draining in over sized containers, ideal for apartment or condo living too I will only ever use "modern substrate(s)" for plants in their final stage of refinement where slowing growth a bit is most often an advantage.

Grimmy

 

[lwagner]

Well, as soon as you start researching soils, the expected answer you will find everywhere is: There is no absolute answer.

I come from a horticultural background, my heart lies with potting soils mixed with aerating material for pre-bonsai. However, most experienced bonsai people hate the stuff. The same difference in opinion is found about akadama, some love it, some detest it.

When in doubt, copy what others do. Read about their drawbacks and plus sides. And go your own way by asking the right questions; what do I want the soil to do, and how will my tree respond to that?

Do you utilize air pots or smart pots?

 

[GrimLore]

Do you utilize air pots or smart pots?

Most all are in over sized Nursery Pots, and of all things most are Black I do however use a heavier type that don't flex made by Kole. I also use a wide size range of the Green Bulb pots, but again of higher quality made by Dillen Products. The largest at 12 gallons and more are normally Fiberglass Patio types that I add more drainage holes to - those I only buy at 75% off during the Winter and tend to always get a few extra. Of course, there are the normal Jiffy trays I reinforce for the tiny stuff as well.

Keeping everything neat on shelves outside does not bother the HOA here - last year a neighbor was complaining they wanted his Wife to "tone down" what was really a nice collection of potted Flora. Seems to me it was not the Flora but the rather colorful and not arranged pots they were in but I kept that to myself. So here subtle and neat works for us...

I used to use colanders and a wide variety of the grow type containers when we had the larger place but honest I found them to need a lot more attention in regards to water and no better results.

Firmly stand on well draining organics for growing here, wasted several years on other "theories".

Also: Discovered since growing again in organics that an older publication by Peter D. Addams also recommends it for most every plant in the book - even in Bonsai pots...

Grimmy

 

[lwagner]

Most all are in over sized Nursery Pots, and of all things most are Black I do however use a heavier type that don't flex made by Kole. I also use a wide size range of the Green Bulb pots, but again of higher quality made by Dillen Products. The largest at 12 gallons and more are normally Fiberglass Patio types that I add more drainage holes to - those I only buy at 75% off during the Winter and tend to always get a few extra. Of course, there are the normal Jiffy trays I reinforce for the tiny stuff as well.

Keeping everything neat on shelves outside does not bother the HOA here - last year a neighbor was complaining they wanted his Wife to "tone down" what was really a nice collection of potted Flora. Seems to me it was not the Flora but the rather colorful and not arranged pots they were in but I kept that to myself. So here subtle and neat works for us...

I used to use colanders and a wide variety of the grow type containers when we had the larger place but honest I found them to need a lot more attention in regards to water and no better results.

Firmly stand on well draining organics for growing here, wasted several years on other "theories".

Also: Discovered since growing again in organics that an older publication by Peter D. Addams also recommends it for most every plant in the book - even in Bonsai pots...

Grimmy

Is the article online? I am trying to find it but search returns with unrelated topics and the book The Art of Bonsai.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Do you utilize air pots or smart pots?

No, I think they're too expensive and too pliable for long term planting. They're fun for herbs, but that's about it. Why use airpots and not old socks or pantyhoses? Some old jeans maybe? Wrap some iron mesh around it, and they're fixed in position.
I've never been a fan, but I know a lot of people that are fans. It's not my style and honestly I'm to autistic to learn how to handle them. I'm already way in over my head when it comes to different container materials.
Air pots are devastating for mycorrhizal fungi, but can be a match made in heaven when watered correctly. The same goes for rhizosphere bacteria. It's a fine balance that I find easier to achieve in more closed containers.

The question is: what do you want to achieve? Do you want to start air-pruning as soon as possible? Did you know that's what airpots do? Do you want vigorous growth of everything right now and refine later, or the other way around? How is your climate and how do certain containers respond to that? The most important lesson I've learned about bonsai is argumentation: set your hypothetical goal, work back from there to find out how to achieve that goal. There are hundreds of ways, and all are correct and wrong. But as soon as you go down the path of a single one, there's no going back or 'hybridizing' techniques unless you're absolutely 100% sure what you're doing and how it affects the system and your goals.

Plants, they grow all by themselves, it's the growers that make it hard. That's the fun, and the frustration. It's why everybody can be wrong and right at the same time. It's why we never, as a community, will agree on every single point.

 

[GrimLore]

Is the article online? I am trying to find it but search returns with unrelated topics and the book The Art of Bonsai.

The Art of Flowering Bonsai, available used as was mine... This place has the best price currently - https://www.abebooks.com/9780706376258/Art-Flowering-Bonsai-Peter-Adams-0706376250/plp under 11.00USD. It is an older publication so I doubt it is online.

Grimmy

 

[Rip]

In my deciduous growing stage I have built slatted grow containers and used a well draining potting soil mixture, Like a cactus mixture. I pretty much don't even have to mess with them. They hold enough moisture to keep the plant happy but not so much that the roots rot. The potting soil makes my maples shoot up like rocket ships!

 

[lwagner]

No, I think they're too expensive and too pliable for long term planting. They're fun for herbs, but that's about it. Why use airpots and not old socks or pantyhoses? Some old jeans maybe? Wrap some iron mesh around it, and they're fixed in position.
I've never been a fan, but I know a lot of people that are fans. It's not my style and honestly I'm to autistic to learn how to handle them. I'm already way in over my head when it comes to different container materials.
Air pots are devastating for mycorrhizal fungi, but can be a match made in heaven when watered correctly. The same goes for rhizosphere bacteria. It's a fine balance that I find easier to achieve in more closed containers.

The question is: what do you want to achieve? Do you want to start air-pruning as soon as possible? Did you know that's what airpots do? Do you want vigorous growth of everything right now and refine later, or the other way around? How is your climate and how do certain containers respond to that? The most important lesson I've learned about bonsai is argumentation: set your hypothetical goal, work back from there to find out how to achieve that goal. There are hundreds of ways, and all are correct and wrong. But as soon as you go down the path of a single one, there's no going back or 'hybridizing' techniques unless you're absolutely 100% sure what you're doing and how it affects the system and your goals.

Plants, they grow all by themselves, it's the growers that make it hard. That's the fun, and the frustration. It's why everybody can be wrong and right at the same time. It's why we never, as a community, will agree on every single point.

The goal I am shooting for is vigorous growth and refine later, that way trunk thickness and hopefully some nebari develop a little more quickly. What would you suggest in this case? The tree sizes currently are 8-16 inches.

 

[lwagner]

In my deciduous growing stage I have built slatted grow containers and used a well draining potting soil mixture, Like a cactus mixture. I pretty much don't even have to mess with them. They hold enough moisture to keep the plant happy but not so much that the roots rot. The potting soil makes my maples shoot up like rocket ships!

What type of cactus soil mix did you make?

 

[lwagner]

@lwagner, it would be helpful to know where you are and what species of trees you are looking at.

Most folks around here prefer a "bonsai" substrate (large particles, mostly-to-all inorganic) even for growing out. Check out the thread about NAPA #8822 as an example.

I am most concerned about Japanese and European larches, but I also have cedars of lebanon, aspen, alder, along with some other species. Mostly conifers.

 

[Carol 83]

What type of cactus soil mix did you make?

Miracle Grow makes a cactus/succulent/citrus soil that I have had success using on some things.

 

[JoeH]

I tend to use a bit more organics than most like to see, its really hot most of the year here so it helps retain moisture during the 90 plus degree days when I am at work and don't have time to water 2-3 times a day like I discovered when I used a more traditional bonsai mix, now its potting mix/micro bark, small gravel, some sand and some other random particles like turface or Napa floor dry.

 

[GrimLore]

I am most concerned about Japanese and European larches, but I also have cedars of lebanon, aspen, alder, along with some other species. Mostly conifers.

Where are you located? Most Helpful if you would add that to your profile so it shows in your Avatar

Grimmy

 

[lwagner]

Where are you located? Most Helpful if you would add that to your profile so it shows in your Avatar

Grimmy

I am in central Indiana. Zone 5b/6a. Started amassing plants last July so very very new to bonsai and horticulture in general.

 

[JoeH]

I am in central Indiana. Zone 5b/6a. Started amassing plants last July so very very new to bonsai and horticulture in general.

Soon you will be overrun by plants, just like Day of the Triffids!! Don't worry, sorce will welcome you to crazy.

 

[Cable]

I opted for "poor man's boons mix". I used lava rock but substituted DE for akadama and perlite for pumice. We'll see what happens!