Soil mix on a budget

[GrimLore]

You guys have any suggestions for a N00b that wants to desperately get into the hobby but wants to do it right?

Honest not to start a fight here you don't need to get/have a special bonsai mix just starting unless it is a plant purchased as a bonsai already in a mix not suitable for a variety of reasons...

Starting out I suggest(and it works) for people to look around and see what plants interest them in bonsai. Then, go to nurseries, box stores, etc... and get a few each of similar types. For example you mentioned Azalea, get 3 - 5 small ones and leave them in the nursery pot for a year and learn what makes them grow or die. Do the same with small junipers, boxwoods, and any of a hundred others for a year learning them.

When you are certain you can keep them a couple of years you can begin to experiment with some repotting a few each. If that goes well for a year then pursue higher larger goals.

No matter when you will always see at least a few like mentioned above at my place as I try to expand my knowledge of different plants. It is cost effective and personally rewarding - the key being rewarding as bonsai should be. Does it take forever? Yes! And so it should

Grimmy

 

[rockm]

The reason I recommended using a decent prepared bonsai soil if you've got a limited number of bonsai and you're a beginner is largely to get to know what decent bonsai soil LOOKS and ACTS like. You can buy 50 lb bgs of turface, 25 lb bags of soil conditioner etc. mix them together and still have a soil that doesn't work.
Using a prepared bonsai soil at first as you begin will give you some experience with how it performs and what is should do.

No offense, but most people don't shop around for their first bonsai and experiment with plants they like. They buy it from some guy on the roadside or at Home Depot because they want a bonsai. They're mostly impulse buys.

 

[GrimLore]

Actually this is a pretty good time for repotting most conifers, quince, rhododendrons (including azaleas) IF temperatures are below 95F and relative humidity is higher than about 50%.

In your opinion does that include Blue Spruce? I have one potted in landscape and it really needs a larger pot which I purchased. I was going to wait until Fall but really would like to now...

Grimmy

 

[GrimLore]

if you've got a limited number of bonsai and you're a beginner

I agree to disagree - if as you stated I don't disagree... If any person is just starting with nursery stock they need to know how to keep it alive and healthy for a good long while before graduating... Most nursery stock dumped into bonsai substrate will land up dead for lack of horticultural knowledge which in my book is step one.

Grimmy

 

[yenling83]

When your new to Bonsai, experimenting with soil mixes is good and fine IMO. I used to use Turface, pine bark and granite grit. Once I realized that Japanese Bonsai professionals are years and years ahead of where we are as a whole and stopped thinking I could re-invent the wheel I switched over to what they are using-Volcanic Soils. Now, the control I have over my trees has grown exponentially. Use whatever for now, If you put a lot of money into a tree down the road, then start looking at -Pumice, Scoria, Akadama-some variation of these three ingredients(all volcanic). Try and go in on a larger order with your club, or buy from Jonas-save up $10 more and you can get some pumice https://store.bonsaitonight.com/collections/all/products/pumice

Some great articles on Soil from two of the best in the US:

https://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/tag/bonsai-soil/

https://crataegus.com/tag/pumice/

 

[0soyoung]

In your opinion does that include Blue Spruce? I have one potted in landscape and it really needs a larger pot which I purchased. I was going to wait until Fall but really would like to now...

Grimmy

Yes, blue spruce, now. New growth is hardened (no extension happening) and will power rapid root recovery, as long as T<95F and rH above about 50% (I am unsure of the minimum, but if it doesn't dip much blow this in the heat of the day, it should be okay). This also gives more time to grow roots and harden them before winter versus waiting until fall.

 

[Guy Vitale]

I'm sure there's plenty of crushed granite in the mountains of Tenn. collect I and mix it with Turface, Napa 8822, decomposed pine bark, etc to stretch it out.

 

[zachkent29]

Middle Tennessee huh? Are you a member of Nashville Bonsai Society? If not, we'd love to have you.

 

[GrimLore]

Yes, blue spruce, now. New growth is hardened (no extension happening) and will power rapid root recovery, as long as T<95F and rH above about 50% (I am unsure of the minimum, but if it doesn't dip much blow this in the heat of the day, it should be okay). This also gives more time to grow roots and harden them before winter versus waiting until fall.

TY, will work it out in the next 48 hours as conditions are perfect then Much appreciated!

Grimmy

 

[SumatraDave]

Middle Tennessee huh? Are you a member of Nashville Bonsai Society? If not, we'd love to have you.

I am not but I'm interested. I looked up the website but for some reason it was down (probably my phone, I don't have a laptop). The only information I could get was that meetings are bi Monthly. Is this correct?

 

[Paradox]

My suggestion for those who are in a budget and want to get into bonsai and do it the right way, is to limit the number of trees you have. It's summer now and the prime repotting season is months away.

You can get by with a mix of lava, pumice and gravel sifted to the same size. You can sometimes get a premixed bag of pumice and lava. I purchase gravel from a landscape company and sive it to match the pumice and lava. The larger gravel is use as a drainage layer I deeper training pots.

As I said you have months before prime repotting time. Start getting components when you can. Get one bag of lava or pumice now and another when you can or save up and get them both at the same time so you'll be ready when you need it.

 

[SumatraDave]

summer now and the prime repotting season is months away.

So no to conifers too? Because osoyoung said this was a good time to repot conifers. I'm getting conflicting information.
Thanks everyone for all the help

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

So no to conifers too? Because osoyoung said this was a good time to repot conifers. I'm getting conflicting information.
Thanks everyone for all the help

Conflicting information...on the Internet? Don't repot anything but tropicals in the SE in the summer. I've been doing this too long to recommend anything but spring repotting, especially to newbies. Contact Owen Reich and see if you can go work for him as grunt labor for a day or two next spring. He's trained, experienced, and local to you.

 

[Paradox]

So no to conifers too? Because osoyoung said this was a good time to repot conifers. I'm getting conflicting information.
Thanks everyone for all the help

Osoyoung is on the Pacific Northwest, which has a very different climate than your area. He sometimes forgets that things he can do don't apply to people in other areas. Follow Brian Van Fleet advice, he won't steer you wrong.

 

[coh]

I think if you look up "internet" in a dictionary, the primary definition is "a modern source of conflicting information."

Regarding repotting, listen to Brian. You can get away with repotting some trees in the summer (definitely tropicals), but if you're a beginner it's best to stick to spring for most species.

 

[0soyoung]

Osoyoung is on the Pacific Northwest, which has a very different climate than your area. He sometimes forgets that things he can do don't apply to people in other areas. Follow Brian Van Fleet advice, he won't steer you wrong.

Actually I am not all that absent minded.

A few simple scientific facts that I rely on are

• transpiration stress (water demand) decreases with increasing relative humidity (i.e., the stress is zero at rH=100%)
• growth rate increases with temperature up to roughly 95F
• newly hardened foliage is highly productive, providing abundant amounts of auxin (root stimulator) and carbohydrates (material for new tissue and the energy for life processes)

I first learned of these facts from some slides produced by Dr. Koder of the Warnell School of Forestry in Georgia (hat tip Brent Walston, evergreengardenworks.com). I've since found the same information embedded in numerous other scholarly papers from Japan, the U.S., Canada, and Europe. In other words, these facts apply the world over.

So, if I can repot or exchange substrate when

1. new growth is not extending and new foliage is hardened
2. temperature is between 40F and 95F
3. relative humidity is above roughly 50%

I think anyone can also repot or exchange substrate where they are, when these three conditions are met.

Of course, if you are not as incredibly skilled as I ...

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Good post @0soyoung as always. Succinct guidelines, hard to disagree, but hard to control those variables in summer.

 

[Paradox]

Of course, if you are not as incredibly skilled as I ...

So telling a newbie in the south east where it is over 100 degrees most of the time right now that repotting conifers is just fine is good advice to you?

Sorry to disagree, but I dont think it is good advice.

 

[0soyoung]

So telling a newbie in the south east where it is over 100 degrees most of the time right now that repotting conifers is just fine is good advice to you?

Your reading comprehension is exceptionally poor, paradoxically poor. My original in this thread:

Actually this is a pretty good time for repotting most conifers, quince, rhododendrons (including azaleas) IF temperatures are below 95F and relative humidity is higher than about 50%.

Now, do you see that I said below 95F?

And what did I say in this post to this thread?

Yes, blue spruce, now. New growth is hardened (no extension happening) and will power rapid root recovery, as long as T<95F and rH above about 50% (I am unsure of the minimum, but if it doesn't dip much blow this in the heat of the day, it should be okay). This also gives more time to grow roots and harden them before winter versus waiting until fall.

Do you see as long as T<95F?

And, what did I say in post #36?

But you do disagree, don't you?

 

[Paradox]

Your reading comprehension is exceptionally poor, paradoxically poor. My original in this thread:

My reading comprehension i

Your reading comprehension is exceptionally poor, paradoxically poor. My original in this thread:



Now, do you see that I said below 95F?

And what did I say in this post to this thread?



Do you see as long as T<95F?

And, what did I say in post #36?

But you do disagree, don't you?

My reading comprehension is fine. I dont go back to every post every time I read a thread so I remember every exact little word everyone said. I dont have time to memorize every little word you type.
I responded to the quote from the OP saying you told him it was fine to repot conifers. He didnt include the 'IF its blah blah statement"
In any case I still dont feel telling a newbie its OK to repot a conifer in summer (with the exception of mugo) under any condition is good advice for a beginner.
We have seen it many times, most newbies kill trees that way.
You do have a tendency to tell people its fine to do something that you can do with your experience, in your area that a newbie anywhere else will do nothing but kill a tree.