Pixar
Chumono
My soil mix contain a mixture of Potting Mix 50 %, Seed raining mix 20%, peat moss 10% ,sand 10%, Tee tree sawdust 10 % not sure if I should be adding the tee tree sawdust at all . Any suggestions ?
Soil Mix
- Thread starter Pixar
- Start date
My suggestion would be to ditch all that and aim for a free draining, mostly or completely inorganic mix with relatively uniform particle size. For example, pumice, lava (scoria), and akadama. Maybe some rough peat or composted bark if you really want some organics in the mix.
BrianBay9
Masterpiece
You can grow trees in pretty much any substrate if you're careful, but something like Lorax7's suggestion will be a whole lot easier.
Tidal Bonsai
Omono
Crazy Diamond
Omono
Too much water retention in that mix, instead sawdust bark its better option, instead of sand pumice or perlite and in bigger quantity, at least I would use 50% of inorganic free draining materials
Pixar
Chumono
Bit hard to get this in New Zealand , most stores don't have this in he range
What about online? I can’t purchase this stuff locally either, except for one bonsai store that’s about an hour’s drive away. But I can order it from online vendors and get it shipped to me. If you can’t get it at all, even online, I’d look into alternatives like NAPA oil dry, European style kitty litter, Turface, chicken grit, etc. Potting soil is just about the worst thing I can think of for a bonsai substrate for anywhere with a climate that includes rain on a regular basis.
Joe Dupre'
Omono
I found this with a little surfing. https://www.nzlandscape.co.nz/
Scoria and small bark mix looks to be available. In the right size, those two would make an excellent mix.
Scoria and small bark mix looks to be available. In the right size, those two would make an excellent mix.
Pixar
Chumono
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction
Memphis
Seed
Sorry that this reply is so late(Feb2022). I have killed trees for 40+ years and the hardest concept that I had to get my mind around is that trees grow WELL without soil or organics. I killed my share and another guy's because I couldn't get away from putting soil in the pot. The other concept that is incredibly important is to water EACH tree as it shows the need for water. Somewhere around 1981, I read Naka's book Bonsai techniques. vol 1 and vol 2. I got it in my mind that I was supposed to water the trees every day from listening to various experts. The problem was that I insisted on putting organics(soil) in my mix and it did not drain well enough to water it every day. So, with those two misapprehensions, I demolished many a tree. I actually quit the art from frustration. Went back and reread several sources and finally got the courage to try and grow a tree without organics. Suddenly everything fell into place. I also started using a moisture meter, admittedly a crutch, but one I obviously needed. Today, I'm growing maples, white pine(variegated), chamaecyparis(hinoki and Lawsonian), quince, ficus, jade, orchids, neoregelia bromeliads, and pineapples. I love tropical plants. Some concepts go against American common sense, but once I got past that, the sky is the limit. Enjoy!!!
Jerry
Seedling
Your post hit my question right on the head. I watch many YouTube videos about Bonsai. Especially Herons Bonsai. He obviously knows what he's doing. I can swear when he shows his trees in a bonsai pot, I see black dirt. Is that possible?
He does a fair amount of ground growing, so it is possible that you saw a video where he is indeed working on a tree planted in something more akin to potting soil.
So true. While soil composition is one of those touchy, complicated topics, from a conceptual perspective I like to think about my soil starting with inorganic components. Organics are good for nutrients and water retention. With respect to nutrients, fertilizing gets you where you need to be, so the organics aren't need in this regard. So for me, the use of organics come down to what my moisture needs are. I always want my soil to have the quick draining effect of inorganic soil, but have added a REALLY small amount of potting soil-like components to ensure moisture retention. I'm not sure it's needed or recommended, but I have added less than 10% of fine dry moss into a mix of 40% pumice, 40% calcined clay, and 20% pine bark. My soil can never really get wet, but also tends to stay a little more moist.
LuZiKui
Shohin
Lol. The mix was 40/40/20 to which I added some moss - no more than 10 % of the total.
Memphis
Seed
You may, perhaps, find that all is not what you expected it to be in this life. Many, many practitioners of arts and businesses DO NOT reveal all of their secrets. Many things enter into this covert activity. Use your imagination.
If I had the only way to make a train run, would I want to go around telling everyone how to make a train run. We're talking human nature, ego, hubris, greed. Dark shapes that haunt many souls.
If I had the only way to make a train run, would I want to go around telling everyone how to make a train run. We're talking human nature, ego, hubris, greed. Dark shapes that haunt many souls.
So true, and that’s why we have Bonsai Nut. I can attest first hand with my incessant newbie questions that folks here actually want to share the secrets they’ve learned over many years with the rest of us to lower the learning curve for us and bring us up to speed. Unfortunately, there is no one way with anything in bonsai and people will have different approaches. To be sure, there are many seasoned practitioners here that not only fully and openly answer all manner of inquiry, but also create threads to disclose their “secrets” in extreme detail.
Memphis
Seed
This may be old news for you, but you may have a bonsai group that meets near you. That can be a good way to exchange info, etc. They meet with trees and go from there.
Do tell. I haven't been to one yet and would like to.
Jerry
Seedling
Yes, he does. But I could swear they were in bonsai pots. But ok Thanks.
I did a quick search on the interwebs and found this article: https://gardenofeaden.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-secrets-to-growing-bonsai.html. It appears from the article that you are correct and Mr. Chan plants his trees in 100% sphagnum moss. Mr. Chan is obviously way more experienced at this bonsai stuff than I, but personally I chalk this up to the "please ignore" category. Although I still can't understand how he uses pure sphagnum moss, there is only one other person I am aware of that did this, he didn't have any notable trees and ultimately died of some weird moss disease. Based upon my (not so) humble experience, pure moss is a recipe for disaster. Potting soils, especially those containing wetting agents, are probably just as bad if not worse.
This excess of organics is why I dont use many of the pre-mixed bonsai soils - they contain too much moss (it's cheaper than the other components). The change in soil dynamics from the ground to the pot is so extreme as to make potting soil not a really good option. The substrate in which a tree may thrive in the ground may very well kill the tree in a pot.
Trees don't need any potting soil or any organics for that matter. It needs aeration, drainage and water retention from its soil. In a pot, you want the water to simply drain out right after watering, with some of the water sticking to the soil components for later use by the tree. The act of water draining will pull oxygen into the soil. The tree will appreciate this moist, but not wet, condition and the ability to dry quicker. Before it dries out, water again. Moss can be added to the top of the soil to ensure that your soil doesn;t become a desert on a hot day. Roots don't grow well in wet soil, especially not the fine feeder roots we are trying to develop.
Point in fact, I've added fine powdered moss to my mixes because I too can't get it out of my head that the trees don;t need or even want this. So now I get to busy myself with sifting out the moss before repotting (not fun). I'm still chicken shit to use a purely inorganic substrate as I don;t have the watering/feeding down, so I will include 20% organics in the form of bark so I don;t have to worry that my trees are dying of thirst while I'm in the office.
