Soil not "soil"

[bonsaiDerek]

I started training this past weekend with the local bonsai "master". I went to his nursery and helped move a lot of trees out of their winter greenhouse. Most of these trees were near show quality and very healthy. I noticed that none of the trees were growing in bonsai soil, but rather just what looked like to be just potting soil. All were in shallow bonsai pots too. many of these trees were over 50 years old and some started in japan.
Ive always been told that to have healthy refined trees in shallow bonsai pots, you need well draining bonsai soil
so how are these amazing trees growing in "just dirt"?

 

[BrightsideB]

You should ask him what he uses. I know people use organics it’s not always Pumice and akadama. Usually a complex mix of things.

 

[BobbyLane]

I started training this past weekend with the local bonsai "master". I went to his nursery and helped move a lot of trees out of their winter greenhouse. Most of these trees were near show quality and very healthy. I noticed that none of the trees were growing in bonsai soil, but rather just what looked like to be just potting soil. All were in shallow bonsai pots too. many of these trees were over 50 years old and some started in japan.
Ive always been told that to have healthy refined trees in shallow bonsai pots, you need well draining bonsai soil
so how are these amazing trees growing in "just dirt"?

Pics or it didnt happen

 

[BobbyLane]

At least if its gonna be another 'soil' thread lets see some bonsai tree pics!!

 

[Mikecheck123]

Probably was Scott's Turf Builder. Nothing but the best.

 

[jonfromchicago]

Could just be broken down Akadama if some of those trees have not been re-potted in a couple of years. Next time you're at the nursery, ask the teacher. I'm also curious to know. You can also grow healthy trees in any soil as long as you understand their watering needs.

 

[nuttiest]

Pics or it didnt happen

I would believe it if just pine bark and perlite.

 

[ChristianDGreat]

Pics or it didnt happen

yuppp!

 

[Shibui]

I have seen bonsai grown in almost all types of soil. It is definitely easier to care for bonsai in open, well drained soils but with proper care, tailored to the soil, trees will grow well in just about anything.
I've seen others talking about the virtues of finer soil particles for the final stages of development. Said to encourage more finer root ramification and thereby better ramification up top. Not something I subscribe to but there are those who do.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

I have seen bonsai grown in almost all types of soil. It is definitely easier to care for bonsai in open, well drained soils but with proper care, tailored to the soil, trees will grow well in just about anything.
I've seen others talking about the virtues of finer soil particles for the final stages of development. Said to encourage more finer root ramification and thereby better ramification up top. Not something I subscribe to but there are those who do.

I'm seeing better results from the SMALL "mix" I get than from what they call "medium."
Theory is that the smaller particles of the stupid akadama are too overwhelmed by the lava and pumice that they can't go ALL to shit like they would prefer to.
Yet still just enough of the fine crap that aka likes to break down into.
???

Then too, I add larger lava to bust it up further and make good drainage.

 

[dbonsaiw]

All were in shallow bonsai pots too. many of these trees were over 50 years old

I too would like to better understand what soil mix is being used for these. My local bonsai shop seems to have all their trees in a 100% organic mix (at least I can't see or feel anything inorganic), but I do not consider them to be "masters" by any measure.

When it comes to larger containers, I no longer believe potting soil is evil incarnate. Perhaps it's a stupid experiment with a tree I like, but I repotted a trident into an really large and shallow grow box (think 30X30X5") in a mix which contains a good amount of local clay soil. Perhaps I will create a wet anaerobic environment and kill my tree. I'm betting that doesn't happen.

 

[leatherback]

Yeah, organics are not bad in itself. In my bonsaischool they use probably over 30% organics in the mix.

 

[Tieball]

I have seen bonsai grown in almost all types of soil. It is definitely easier to care for bonsai in open, well drained soils but with proper care, tailored to the soil, trees will grow well in just about anything.
I've seen others talking about the virtues of finer soil particles for the final stages of development. Said to encourage more finer root ramification and thereby better ramification up top. Not something I subscribe to but there are those who do.

I agree. I’m a mix though. Several trees are substrate and other trees are my basic local land soil with added bark chips. My local soil is very sandy (like beach sand) and amended with decades of oak leaf decomposition. I wouldn’t say I subscribe to the soil…I just use it and the trees are just fine.

 

[ZombieNick]

I know people add a little potting soil to their bonsai mix here in Socal to help us through the hottest part of summer (I personally do not). Straight potting soil in a bonsai container does seem problematic (although not impossible), I too would be curios to see said trees and soil.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

I amend the little potting soil I use with small (not fine) pumice. I sorta shake some potting soil on any demarcation of different soils.
Figure it fools the roots into thinking it's "easy pickins."
Looks like dirty rice.

 

[August44]

What is the best potting soil to use for bonsai whether I use it as an add on to lava /pumice or straight. Alot of potting soil is junk and most is infused with fertilizer that I don't think I want. Help appreciated.

PS: I see nursery trees that come in some kind or organics with maybe some small pumice that are root bound beyond belief, but no root rot and they live after reducing roots etc.

 

[ZombieNick]

What is the best potting soil to use for bonsai whether I use it as an add on to lava /pumice or straight. Alot of potting soil is junk and most is infused with fertilizer that I don't think I want. Help appreciated.

PS: I see nursery trees that come in some kind or organics with maybe some small pumice that are root bound beyond belief, but no root rot and they live after reducing roots etc.

I know the ones labelled "succulent mix" are popular here as they tend to have more aeration/drainage then your normal potting mixes. Stay away from Miracle Grow as it's packed with the fertilizer you mentioned. I'm a fan of Dr. Earth, although admittedly I don't use it for bonsai, and it's on the more expensive end. My houseplants and peppers seem to love it though.

 

[August]

What is the best potting soil to use for bonsai whether I use it as an add on to lava /pumice or straight. Alot of potting soil is junk and most is infused with fertilizer that I don't think I want. Help appreciated.

PS: I see nursery trees that come in some kind or organics with maybe some small pumice that are root bound beyond belief, but no root rot and they live after reducing roots etc.

Hello other August @ZombieNick already laid down a decent suggestion and succulent mix will be better than run of the mill all purpose mixes. However, I think theres something to be said about coco coir based mixes if youre using it for bonsai...

I won't go on a rant about how its technically more sustainable... but!

More importantly it's what the cannabis growers use, ala Happy Frog and the other high end coir based soils that line the aisles of hydroponic stores. Pot farmers only use the best for their crop (paranoia?) and are every bit as serious about their horticulture as bonsai enthusiasts.

I also have known many others on this forum to use coco coir itself as an organic in their gritty mixes. So there's precedent as well!

Personally I only have a bit of experience with it, but I have had some downright awful experiences with peat, and I believe coco exchanges water better for our uses.

 

[August44]

Hello other August @ZombieNick already laid down a decent suggestion and succulent mix will be better than run of the mill all purpose mixes. However, I think theres something to be said about coco coir based mixes if youre using it for bonsai...

I won't go on a rant about how its technically more sustainable... but!

More importantly it's what the cannabis growers use, ala Happy Frog and the other high end coir based soils that line the aisles of hydroponic stores. Pot farmers only use the best for their crop (paranoia?) and are every bit as serious about their horticulture as bonsai enthusiasts.

I also have known many others on this forum to use coco coir itself as an organic in their gritty mixes. So there's precedent as well!

Personally I only have a bit of experience with it, but I have had some downright awful experiences with peat, and I believe coco exchanges water better for our uses.

Thanks for the input. What does coco coir consist of if I may ask?

PS: I use August because that's me name and of course 44 yr born

 

[August]

Thanks for the input. What does coco coir consist of if I may ask?

Raw aggregate made from the fiber between the husk and outer shell of coconuts. Comes milled in a few different sizes or "textures" much like peat.

Edit: there is some concern as to high salt concentrations when it is harvested. However I dont imagine companies would allow it to go on the floor for 40$ a bag without proper processing ala leeching the salt out. Thats my working assumption at least