Some questions about deshojo shohin care

LeoMame

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Hello Bonsai People,

a very quick set of questions for you: will keeping a shohin deshojo indoor for couple of days -given the right watering/fertilising/good lighting- negatively affect it in any way?

Is it a good idea to keep it on a tray with gravel or it might result in too much humidity around it?

Do you all put moss on your shohins (either for keeping the moisture or for aesthetics reasons)?

Thank you very much as usual!

Leo
 

leatherback

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I often put trees inside for a few days. Main concern is difference in air humidity. Inside it is -certainly when aircon or heater are running- often drier than outside which might lead to extreme loss of moisture in the leaves.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Depends on time of year. Middle of summer, a few days indoors will not bother the tree at all. Middle of winter, a few days in warmth will completely undo cold adaptations, break dormancy and cause the tree to begin to grow, which in middle of winter is a bad thing.
In spring, during the rapid growth spurt, a few days indoors might result in segments of etiolated (elongated) growth, reaching for light because indoors is relatively low light. Summer and autumn are the times of year when a few days indoors is tolerated best.

It is generally a good plan to keep "outdoor" bonsai, outdoors except for short spans to put them on display. Bring them in for the photo op, or on display for the dinner party, and try to get them back to their growing areas within a half a day.
 

0soyoung

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Shibui

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Sounds like Bologna has a pretty mild climate on the coast of Italy. I don't think a couple of days inside will hurt the tree, even in winter as there's not a lot of difference between inside temps and outside. I only bring my trees inside for events - dinner party, show, etc. I'd rather go out in the garden and see them where they belong.

For just a couple of days there should not be much need for watering. Water needs are way down in cooler, darker conditions inside.
You should be able to get away without a tray of stones for the few days you will have it inside but a tray probably won't hurt either.
I do use moss for aesthetics. It does make them look good I think. Moss does not need to be full cover. Part moss, part sand/gravel can look good.
 

LeoMame

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Interesting infos, thanks everybody. It happened that we had a particularly severe windstorm that lasted for couple of days and even though I could lace up my junipers and ume and keep them in the porch, the shohins were better off inside the garage, which is almost as cold as outside but no wind.

Again thank you very much!
 

JudyB

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I bring mine in regularly, just not in the dead of winter...
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Well, I know you exaggerate for emphasis, Leo.

Maybe refer to this post in the japanese maple chill hour requirements thread, @LeoCosta

I am not exaggerating, I did abbreviate my answer, in which I did not include all the "pre-conditions". As you know I am a "blueberry farmer", and read the commercial fruit production literature. In Michigan, there was a catastrophic thaw freeze episode in February of 2013. In Michigan, zone 6a, normal winter lows run between -10 to -15 F. (-23 C to -26 C ) and for the fruit trees normally grown in SW Michigan, these temperatures are no problem. However, in February, there was an unusually strong, and lengthy "late winter thaw" in which for 72 hours the low temp was above 45 F, above +6 C, with daytime highs of 80 F. Then rapidly the temperature dropped back to "normal" with night time low of 0 F (-18 C ). The result was near total freeze kill of flower buds for apple, peach, blueberry, cherry, apricot, grape and other fruit. The 2013 crop loss was near 100 million dollars. Catastrophic for Michigan farmers. Now zero F (-18 C) is well within the normal freeze tolerance of commercial fruit grown in the area. The end analysis was that the warm spell had reversed the process of cold adaptation. The trees had begun the process of "waking up", and had begun to increase the water content of tissues, increase the water content of sap, and other changes that are harbingers of spring growth, and work counter to being adapted to cold.

Some of the changes trees undergo to adapt to cold include change the water content of tissues, effectively making them more cold resistant (anti-freeze like) by lowering the amount of water in tissues and sap. This process takes at least 2 or more months of decreasing night temperatures in autumn. When a tree wakes up in spring, it changes the water balance back to a higher water content, so sap will flow easier, and metabolism can increase in rate.

It turns out, especially after the minimum chill requirements are met, the metabolic changes made to adapt to extreme cold can be reversed fairly quickly.

Conclusion - if you live in a COLD climate, bringing a tree indoors will rapidly undo adaptations to cold. If your winter is normally 0 F (or -18 C ) at night, bringing a tree indoors for 2 or 3 days can "wake a tree up" enough that returning the tree to 0F ( - 18 C) at night could be lethal.

Obviously, if one has a winter storage area where temperatures are mild, or an area where temperatures are controlled to be above freezing, but below 40 F (+4 C ), then the issue of bringing indoors for a few days is moot.

I'm in a cold winter area, and winter the majority of my bonsai outside, on the ground, with no protection from temperature. Just a little wind protection. Knowing the above, I don't bring those trees indoors for more than a brief few hours. The trees I store in my well house, where temperature always stays above freezing, I can bring those in for a day or two, and they are fine.

Note, some trees, like Japanese maples will "wake up" rapidly, 2 days indoors might be fine, but 5 days may very well start the spring growth cycle. Once they start growing, returning them to cool, 32 F to 40 F storage will not stop the spring growth. They will keep growing.
 

leatherback

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I am not exaggerating, I did abbreviate my answer, in which I did not include all the "pre-conditions". As you know I am a "blueberry farmer", and read the commercial fruit production literature. In Michigan, there was a catastrophic thaw freeze episode in February of 2013. In Michigan, zone 6a, normal winter lows run between -10 to -15 F. (-23 C to -26 C ) and for the fruit trees normally grown in SW Michigan, these temperatures are no problem. However, in February, there was an unusually strong, and lengthy "late winter thaw" in which for 72 hours the low temp was above 45 F, above +6 C, with daytime highs of 80 F. Then rapidly the temperature dropped back to "normal" with night time low of 0 F (-18 C ). The result was near total freeze kill of flower buds for apple, peach, blueberry, cherry, apricot, grape and other fruit. The 2013 crop loss was near 100 million dollars. Catastrophic for Michigan farmers. Now zero F (-18 C) is well within the normal freeze tolerance of commercial fruit grown in the area. The end analysis was that the warm spell had reversed the process of cold adaptation. The trees had begun the process of "waking up", and had begun to increase the water content of tissues, increase the water content of sap, and other changes that are harbingers of spring growth, and work counter to being adapted to cold.

Some of the changes trees undergo to adapt to cold include change the water content of tissues, effectively making them more cold resistant (anti-freeze like) by lowering the amount of water in tissues and sap. This process takes at least 2 or more months of decreasing night temperatures in autumn. When a tree wakes up in spring, it changes the water balance back to a higher water content, so sap will flow easier, and metabolism can increase in rate.

It turns out, especially after the minimum chill requirements are met, the metabolic changes made to adapt to extreme cold can be reversed fairly quickly.

Conclusion - if you live in a COLD climate, bringing a tree indoors will rapidly undo adaptations to cold. If your winter is normally 0 F (or -18 C ) at night, bringing a tree indoors for 2 or 3 days can "wake a tree up" enough that returning the tree to 0F ( - 18 C) at night could be lethal.

Obviously, if one has a winter storage area where temperatures are mild, or an area where temperatures are controlled to be above freezing, but below 40 F (+4 C ), then the issue of bringing indoors for a few days is moot.

I'm in a cold winter area, and winter the majority of my bonsai outside, on the ground, with no protection from temperature. Just a little wind protection. Knowing the above, I don't bring those trees indoors for more than a brief few hours. The trees I store in my well house, where temperature always stays above freezing, I can bring those in for a day or two, and they are fine.

Note, some trees, like Japanese maples will "wake up" rapidly, 2 days indoors might be fine, but 5 days may very well start the spring growth cycle. Once they start growing, returning them to cool, 32 F to 40 F storage will not stop the spring growth. They will keep growing.
Agreed. This is also the reason why late frosts are such a problem.
 

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