Some trees to Discuss

JasonG

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In light of my last post on "Who we are" I thought I would throw a bunch of trees up here to discuss and start some sort of dialog about trees.

So I am postsing a bunch of yamadori, most of which have yet to be worked on in any way.

Here we start with a Lodgepole Pine that I collected a little over 1 month ago. Since then it is pushing new buds all over the place and there is new root growth.
This little tree has great bark, great movement and wonderful short needles and it seems like all the branches are in the right place. This will be an easy tree to style and have a good looking tree when done.

What would you do to it?
 

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JasonG

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Here is an Engleman Spruce, again I collected it last year and it is pushing new growth all over the place. This tree has not been touched. Native dirt is still on the roots and I have not cut or trimmed any branches.

What do you think of this tree.....

Oh, trunk is atleast 3" and it is about 40" tall.
 

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JasonG

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Another little Lodgepole. This little guy is kind of an ok tree. Collected last month it is very healthy and pushing new growth. Not sure if I keep this one or not.

What do you guys think?
 

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JasonG

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Sierra Juniper.... I love this tree!!!! A keeper for sure!!! Collected 6 weeks ago by me.

Great little juniper with awesome deadwood and a great future.....
 

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JasonG

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Here is another lodgepole that I collected about 6 weeks ago. Again, pushing growth and healthy....

Nice big fat trunk, great deadwood and good movement. This will be an easy one to bend and a fun one to style. One of my favorite lodgepoles.

Sorry for the messed up background....
What do you all think?
 

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JasonG

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A little white pine I collected on the same trip.... good bark good movement. Can become a nice tree in a few years.....
 

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JasonG

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The best lodgepole I have collected so far. Everyone who has seen it says its the best lodgepole they have seen so far...in raw form.

This has about an 8" trunk that is full of deadwood. It will be a semi cascade (I think) in the future. I will look at it for another year before I do anything with it and make a drastic decision then..... THis will be an outstanding bonsai.
 

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JasonG

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And the Wife's little engleman spruce.... cute little guy. She is going to style it in a few weeks at her first workshop. I am sure I won't be able to get Walter away from helping her..... lol!!

And then the 2 monsters, front and back. This berm they sit on is a work in progress so please excuse the mess and bare dirt.

If we discuss any of these I can get better pictures of any of the trees.....

Thanks for looking and lets discuss..... :)

Jason
 

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grouper52

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Jason,

The trees are beyond criticism, but the method of posting is not: :eek: I would find it better if each one had its own thread - could you re-do it in that fashion so the discussions will be more cohesive?

Thanks.

grouper52/Will
 

Jay Wilson

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Hey Jason, Thanks for sharing these with us.
I like the first Pine a good bit, but the Spruce......Wow!

The little pine...You should probably put it in the ground for a few years to thicken up...Just kidding;-) It looks like bunjin could be in its future.

The juniper didn't come through and as for the rest of the pines....Nice looking material. I wish I could find trees like this in Florida.


Jay

Edit. As I was composing this, you posted a few more trees, but the pics didn't come through . I have to agree with Grouper though.Seperate threads might have been better
 
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Tachigi

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Hate to say it Vance, but Jason is right. I don't feel he insulted you, only stated his opinion as you have, and where he would like the forum to head.

Jason, Dam when it rains it pours:) . A lot to digest here and will be back with some ideas for discussion. One comment though. The little lodge pole pine, ID 1323. You asked for comment, so only one thing comes to mind ....cradle robber ;)
 

JasonG

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Will, That will be a ton of work but maybe I will get to it soon.... when I have time.

Vance, sorry I offended you. It was just my take on the debate that has been hashed and rehashed over and over again. It was nothing personal.

Anyways, back to trees.... Tom, even though that one may be younger than most is still has a good trunk and nice bark..... who knows maybe that will be a door prize one day, :)

See Ya!
 
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Everyone needs to be rebuked sometimes. I have taken my share, and when I trust the person rebuking, it certainly means a lot.
 

rlist

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Here is an Engleman Spruce, again I collected it last year and it is pushing new growth all over the place. This tree has not been touched. Native dirt is still on the roots and I have not cut or trimmed any branches.

What do you think of this tree.....

Oh, trunk is atleast 3" and it is about 40" tall.
I think this is my tree. But regardless of who's possession it is in, it is the best spruce in the yard.

Sierra Juniper.... I love this tree!!!! A keeper for sure!!! Collected 6 weeks ago by me.

Great little juniper with awesome deadwood and a great future.....
This tree is worth more than my entire collection - and I am sure it is worth more than the entire collection of many people people that have been involved in bonsai for many years. That puts it beyond critique for me.

And the Wife's little engleman spruce.... cute little guy. She is going to style it in a few weeks at her first workshop. I am sure I won't be able to get Walter away from helping her..... lol!!

And then the 2 monsters, front and back. This berm they sit on is a work in progress so please excuse the mess and bare dirt.

If we discuss any of these I can get better pictures of any of the trees.....

Thanks for looking and lets discuss..... :)

Jason
The spruce is nice, picture sucks. The two monsters - each one is worth more than the sierra you posted... They have a few years before they can be touched, but I think each will be the preeminent example of their species in the country, if not the world.

Geeze Jason, you come along and rebuke and or insult every body and then you expect input---oh well. After I learned what you thought about my attempt to anaylize the concept of the pre-bonsai I doubt anything I have to say will be of any value to you.
Not sure what you mean by this Vance... I don't believe he insulted anybody, just called them out as numerous people have been doing for a few months now. Now, since you brought up the concept of pre-bonsai, and you are the expert at defining trees as such, would you classify any or all of these as pre-bonsai?

Everyone needs to be rebuked sometimes. I have taken my share, and when I trust the person rebuking, it certainly means a lot.
Yup.


Finally, Jason, why did you post these trees? Too lazy to pull out the good ones to photograph I assume. I am sure you have some good pre-bonsai, as well as regular old bonsai, on those benches that are a little better than what you posted here...
 
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Here is an Engleman Spruce, again I collected it last year and it is pushing new growth all over the place. This tree has not been touched. Native dirt is still on the roots and I have not cut or trimmed any branches.

What do you think of this tree.....

Oh, trunk is atleast 3" and it is about 40" tall.
I like this tree. In fact, I don't see much more to be done than develop ramification and clean it up a bit. This tree would become a natural showstopper just about anywhere in a short amount of time. What a great find!
 
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Very nice trees Jason, you have had a good collecting year. How long are you planing on letting them recupurate before you begin working on them?


Will
 

Tachigi

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The lodge pole pine is a great tree. Of the two pictures you show the second would be my chosen front. I do have a slight concern about what appears to be bulging/reverse taper at the midsection possibly due to the branching in that area or it could be just a bad camera angle. My second concern would be a bottle neck if the smaller trunk is chosen as a lead to the apex (which would be my preference). Both probably could be over come though through some quick work of a makita. The branch placement is good through out the tree. With some branch development this will be a great tree.

The engelman spruce is a fantastic tree. I think the only credible design style would be that of naturalistic. I agree with Chris in part that it would be a show stopper. I do think it needs more than ramifying an tiding up. I think a primary branch or possibly branches with some substantial girth is need to visually offset the size of the trunk. Nice find!

The Sierra Juniper has great dead wood, however that is all I can positively say about it (bracing for the boos and hisses) Perhaps its the photo but I can't share yours and Rick's enthusiasm about it. In the right hands I have no doubt it will make a good bonsai. I know that Sierras aren't used for its foliage per say. So I'm not really even factoring that in. The problem I see is that you don't want to edit the dead wood to much and rob mother nature her hard work so that leaves little options left on the movement, shape and size of the trunk ... I truly hope to be proved wrong here.

The second lodge pole is nice no bells and whistles a solid piece of material from what I can make out of the pictures.

The white pine in my opinion is ... well ... blah! Its bulbous tush doesn't do a thing for me. Does it have any nebari? Sorry Jason, perhaps its all the other great material your showing that makes this piece lacking.

The best lodge pole I have collected so far. Everyone who has seen it says its the best lodgepole they have seen so far...in raw form.
This is an absolutely true statement. The dead wood is fantastic, outstanding movement for a contorta. These two features will make this another show stopper someday down the road. This is the best example of lodge pole I've seen (except maybe for the ones I have in my growing field;) )

I love this little engelmani I think it will be a stonker sooner than later. It looks like its ready to be styled and jump into a pot. Your wife should have fun with this. Has she decided on a styling scheme yet?

I would comment on the two monsters but my hands tremble and I break out in a cold sweat everytime I look at the picture. These are what wet dreams are made of. BTW: Who humped these beasts outta the woods?

Thanks Jason for taking the time to post these.
 
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Very nice trees Jason, you have had a good collecting year. How long are you planing on letting them recupurate before you begin working on them?


Will
May I quote my teacher? "It is not about time, it is about health. Here, it becomes very important to know the difference between health and just staying alive. You should be able to recognize the level of root activity by observing the foliage for each species."
 
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May I quote my teacher? "It is not about time, it is about health. Here, it becomes very important to know the differnec ebetween health and just staying alive. You should be able to recognize the level of root activity by observing the foliage for each species."
Thanks Jason?

That is obvious Chris, let me rephrase the question...

Jason, based on your past experience, how long after collecting have you see trees such as these regain health enough to begin working on them?


Will
 

JasonG

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I think this is my tree. But regardless of who's possession it is in, it is the best spruce in the yard.
Finally, Jason, why did you post these trees? Too lazy to pull out the good ones to photograph I assume. I am sure you have some good pre-bonsai, as well as regular old bonsai, on those benches that are a little better than what you posted here...
Yes Rich, these were easy to get to on the bench and they were light..... One day soon I will get some better stuff up here on Da' Nut!

I like this tree. In fact, I don't see much more to be done than develop ramification and clean it up a bit. This tree would become a natural showstopper just about anywhere in a short amount of time. What a great find!
Thanks Chris, You are right but there is some carving that will be done on the upper 1/3 to 1/2 of the trunk when it is all said and done. I need to connect shari and tie it all together. But for the most part it is close to bieng a good tree.... just needs a pot and some detail work and we will be there. I will have more spruce similar to this by the end of this fall.

The lodge pole pine is a great tree. Of the two pictures you show the second would be my chosen front. I do have a slight concern about what appears to be bulging/reverse taper at the midsection possibly due to the branching in that area or it could be just a bad camera angle. My second concern would be a bottle neck if the smaller trunk is chosen as a lead to the apex (which would be my preference). Both probably could be over come though through some quick work of a makita. The branch placement is good through out the tree. With some branch development this will be a great tree..
I just went and looked in person and I didn't see any major buldge so it must have been my bad photos :) This can become a very classic tree in a short amount of time. The big leader I cut off will see some love with the Makita but other than that it is get it in a pot, carve and then some wiring (if I can ever get some copper wire ;) )

The Sierra Juniper has great dead wood, however that is all I can positively say about it (bracing for the boos and hisses) Perhaps its the photo but I can't share yours and Rick's enthusiasm about it. In the right hands I have no doubt it will make a good bonsai. I know that Sierras aren't used for its foliage per say. So I'm not really even factoring that in. The problem I see is that you don't want to edit the dead wood to much and rob mother nature her hard work so that leaves little options left on the movement, shape and size of the trunk ... I truly hope to be proved wrong here..
I will prove you wrong!!! :) The foliage doesn't bother me, infact I kinda like the blueish color and the smell doesn't bother me either. I am not a purist when it comes to foliage, ya know... graft shimpaku or black pine on everything so I plan to keep it native. In person this tree is probably the best tree I own at the moment. There is plenty of options without really editing the deadwood too much and still making a very naturalistic bonsai that will show its age, deadwood, live vein twists, etc.

The white pine in my opinion is ... well ... blah! Its bulbous tush doesn't do a thing for me. Does it have any nebari? Sorry Jason, perhaps its all the other great material your showing that makes this piece lacking..
I know, I know, lol! It is one of those things that you have room on the pack, it has some unique style to it and someone will want it if I don't. Then factor in it came out of the rock in 3 minutes....hmmm, grab it! It has no nebari to speak of since it was grown in a crack, hence the bulbous base. You can't always have killer trees, know what I mean?



This is an absolutely true statement. The dead wood is fantastic, outstanding movement for a contorta. These two features will make this another show stopper someday down the road. This is the best example of lodge pole I've seen (except maybe for the ones I have in my growing field;) )

I love this little engelmani I think it will be a stonker sooner than later. It looks like its ready to be styled and jump into a pot. Your wife should have fun with this. Has she decided on a styling scheme yet?.
I told her lastnight that while Walter is here she needs to take part in the private stuff we do in the yard and work on this one..... she likes it just like it is and doesn't want to change anything. So I will either get her to work on it or I will sneak it into my pile of trees to work on...hope she doesn't notice. Again, this will be a very natural looking tree since there really isn't a whole lot to do with it. Enhance some movement, clean up the deadwood and do some wiring. That will be all for its first styling.
That contorta is a show stopper..... I can't wait to work on it and get it into a much better pot. I have seen thousands in the woods but never one with deadwood like that. What a brutal life it has lived so far....


Jason, based on your past experience, how long after collecting have you see trees such as these regain health enough to begin working on them?


Will
Will, I am a lot more aggressive than most on working on things. If it is pushing new growth and I can see new root growth I will work on it then. Most of the times it will be in 1 growing season that I am able to work on things maybe 2 at the most. I want to get it out of native soil as soon as possible and into a pot of some sort. But if I don't see new roots and new growth to support the roots then I will wait until both of those things come together. Most of the time it is within 1 year of collecting no matter the species. A good root pad and feeding program will normally show me both in a year or less....
I guess I follow the logic of Chris's teacher Boon on this one :) It isn't time, it is health of the tree....


Thanks.....

Jason
 
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