Somehow I Screwed UP Annealing My Copper Wire

[mrcasey]

I wanted to use copper wire like all the cool kids, so I went down to Lowes, bought $65 worth of
wire. I built a fire in a in a 50 gal metal drum, placed the wire inside on the coals, and stacked some more
wood on top. Two hours later, I took out the wire; it looked perfect.

The wire is definitely soft but it's also weak as hell. I tried wiring the fine branches of an eastern red cedar
with 18 gauge copper and the wire just kept snapping off in my hands. The 14 gauge was kind of weak too.
Haven't tried the heavier stuff yet.

For the tiny gauges, can I just use non annealed copper and let time and the elements oxidize it to a more
appropriate color/texture?

Casey

 

[crust]

I wanted to use copper wire like all the cool kids, so I went down to Lowes, bought $65 worth of
wire. I built a fire in a in a 50 gal metal drum, placed the wire inside on the coals, and stacked some more
wood on top. Two hours later, I took out the wire; it looked perfect.

The wire is definitely soft but it's also weak as hell. I tried wiring the fine branches of an eastern red cedar
with 18 gauge copper and the wire just kept snapping off in my hands. The 14 gauge was kind of weak too.
Haven't tried the heavier stuff yet.

For the tiny gauges, can I just use non annealed copper and let time and the elements oxidize it to a more
appropriate color/texture?

Casey

You over heated it and now its probably all no good. I have done the same thing. Then when you go to wire it breaks as you put it on. Ideally you should not get it hotter than like 1100 degrees F which is hard to do. Many use low temp fuel like paper to do this. Some heat it wildly and watch the wire until it glows just so and pull it out. I have used a kiln. Perhaps if you chopped a hole in the lower part of the barrel made some holes in the sides in the upper area and slid rebar in for a rack for the wire and stuck a weed burner torch in the lower hole and used scrap alum wire as a temp indicator (markyscott) throw a loose top on and heat it up in a more controlled way.

 

[JudyB]

Or... just buy it from Gremel...

 

[Eric Group]

Or you could spend $65 on copper wire already annealed... And you would be wiring trees the minute you receive it.
Just sayin...

There is the potential to save money buying it from Lowe's or whatever, but the savings are lost as soon as a $65 batch is ruined, right? So.. Keep dropping money on batches of wire from a box store, and wasting that cash til you get it dialed in... Or, just buy it ready to use.

Orrrr... Just save a bunch of money and stick with Al! It is easier to use, reusable, comes in sizes that can work on any size branch on any tree... I have not yet found the need to use Copper wire personally and the times I tried it... I didn't like it. Harder to use, harder to remove, maybe the color is a better match with some bark, but Al comes in a wide range of color options now... JMO

No offense to anyone who likes copper but I simply don't get it.

 

[Eric Group]

Or... just buy it from Gremel...

LOL same time! Jinx!

 

[PiñonJ]

From the sounds of it, you're lucky you didn't melt it all down into an ingot! Apparently, it doesn't take a lot of heat, or time. Some of the old books talk about heating it in a fire of rice straw and I think someone on B-Nut said that a few minutes (ten?) on the barbecue would do the trick.

 

[sorce]

I threw some in a fire the other night...

I'll stick with the stovetop....

But I don't buy wire.

And I probly never will.

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

I use an old grill. Wood and paper for fuel.
I also quench it with snow because I usually anneal in the winter. I use scraps of electrical wire used for wiring houses. I cook it with the insulation on. When the plastic is all burned off clean it's done. I just toss it in the snow.

 

[eferguson1974]

I annealed steel in high school and remeber it well. I asume copper is similar. I was taught to heat it up, then let it cool as slowly as possible. We cut up a crankshaft, hard steel. We built a little box out of bricks, heated the metel then put it in the box. The next day it was easily cut. This is due the molecules moving more when hot, and letting it cool slowly "relaxes" the molecules. Metal is quenched to make get a temper, not loose it. If the molecules are moving quicky and cooled rapidly, they get kind stuck without the metal shrinking. Making the metal "mad", giving it a temper. So heat your wire, IDK how hot or to what color, then put it where it cools slowly to ambient temp. Maybe my explanation sucks but thats still the process. Try that if you can. But I think you will need to know a temp to heat it up to, then if you can insulate it somehow so it cools slowly it should work. Or with copper being already softer than steel, maybe just letting it cool of outside is ok. I know a tad more about metal than bonsai so I hope that experiance helps you. I may have to do it too for smaller wire. I can get aluminium wire for going from a post to the breaker box. It has three cables, two inside sheaths. One bare for grownd. Seven strands to a cable. I think its $1.00 for a foot, which is really 21' of wire. Pretty darn cheap. I buy 10' and can.wire a lot of stuff. But its pretty thick for small stuff and breaks if its kinked much. Anyway, I dont know the price where you all live, but that may be a cheaper solution for you. Just be carefull stripping it not to cut into the metal, it will break there very easily. Have fun and let us know how it goes.

 

[Smoke]

I have a recipe for making butter if anyone is interested?

 

[M. Frary]

My wire is soft as butter after quenching.

 

[fourteener]

Or you could spend $65 on copper wire already annealed... And you would be wiring trees the minute you receive it.
Just sayin...

There is the potential to save money buying it from Lowe's or whatever, but the savings are lost as soon as a $65 batch is ruined, right? So.. Keep dropping money on batches of wire from a box store, and wasting that cash til you get it dialed in... Or, just buy it ready to use.

Orrrr... Just save a bunch of money and stick with Al! It is easier to use, reusable, comes in sizes that can work on any size branch on any tree... I have not yet found the need to use Copper wire personally and the times I tried it... I didn't like it. Harder to use, harder to remove, maybe the color is a better match with some bark, but Al comes in a wide range of color options now... JMO

No offense to anyone who likes copper but I simply don't get it.

Copper has the strength for me to put movement into my trees that I could never accomplish with aluminum. Aluminum is not as strong as copper, that's the reason for its use.

 

[sorce]

I have a recipe for making butter if anyone is interested?

How bout an ass cheese one?

Sorce

 

[JudyB]

No offense to anyone who likes copper but I simply don't get it.

I didn't either until I started working with moving very heavy branching. Just can't do some things with alum. I also like working with alum. better, but it is necessary to go copper in some instances.

 

[Eric Group]

Copper has the strength for me to put movement into my trees that I could never accomplish with aluminum. Aluminum is not as strong as copper, that's the reason for its use.

I didn't either until I started working with moving very heavy branching. Just can't do some things with alum. I also like working with alum. better, but it is necessary to go copper in some instances.

I can see that... Typically I work with small and med sized trees, guess I have yet to run across a bendable branch al could not move for me. Duly noted!

 

[GrimLore]

I get the charcoal grill up to 550F, toss coils on one of those ceramic veggie/shrimp trays, and although I never timed it I am guessing it takes about 25 minutes to have it glowing red. Remove and toss in a bucket of cold wire, done. I might add it is easier to see it turn red if you do it at night. I tried small amounts several times and that is what works for me.

Grimmy

 

[Adair M]

I can see that... Typically I work with small and med sized trees, guess I have yet to run across a bendable branch al could not move for me. Duly noted!

Eric, go look at my thread "Advanced Wiring: using fishhooks" in the Resources and Tutorials section. Used 16 gauge copper for most of the wiring. The branches on that tree are very supple. Almost like rubber. Copper is used not for its strength to move the branch, but for its its ability to hold its position. Wire it, position it, and it STAYS PUT. But then, even more remarkably, if you want to reposition it a little, even years later, bend it into a new position, and it does, and stays put! I use Gremel's wire.

Now, for deciduous, I use aluminum. I was at Boon's 5 days last week. Wired all day long for 4 of those days. Used aluminum on the Olives and Ume, and copper on the pines.

 

[Eric Group]

Eric, go look at my thread "Advanced Wiring: using fishhooks" in the Resources and Tutorials section. Used 16 gauge copper for most of the wiring. The branches on that tree are very supple. Almost like rubber. Copper is used not for its strength to move the branch, but for its its ability to hold its position. Wire it, position it, and it STAYS PUT. But then, even more remarkably, if you want to reposition it a little, even years later, bend it into a new position, and it does, and stays put! I use Gremel's wire.

Now, for deciduous, I use aluminum. I was at Boon's 5 days last week. Wired all day long for 4 of those days. Used aluminum on the Olives and Ume, and copper on the pines.

Us Al on both normally and I find it holds fine, can be bent again later and will hold fine then as well, assuming the wire is suffificient for the branch obviously... I know typically you and many others recommend Copper for Pine and Juniper, Al for Deciduous... I just haven't ever seen an appreciable difference in how they work.. Looks, yeah maybe the copper looks a little better....

 

[AlainK]

The best to anneal copper is a fire of dead leaves.

When the copper begins to redden, throw it into a bucket of cold water.

It will be supple when you use it, but harden as long as you twist it when wiring.

 

[Adair M]

I just haven't ever seen an appreciable difference in how they work.. Looks, yeah maybe the copper looks a little better....

Uh...

Isn't bonsai all about how the tree looks?