Timbo
Chumono
I imagine you guys gets lot of wind?
Any luck with cuttings or air layering?
source for J. maples?
- Thread starter GailC
- Start date
Any luck with cuttings or air layering?
WOOB
Sapling
Try Mark Comstock Old Lyme, CT, United States I think his email kingsvillegrower@yahoo.com . Nice guy and he is a grower .... His maples are great most are in a broom style. He also sells on the facebook bonsai sights.
Yeah, I would say a moderate amount of wind. The two that I planted in the ground reside on the north side of a small lake, so they were much less sheltered than the two in grow baskets. Didn't seem to faze them either way (although snow accumulation probably insulated them a bit).
I have yet to attempt any cuttings or air layering, but I will report back if I do.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Not Japanese maples though are they?
Timbo
Chumono
Korean maples should survive you, i can't imagine them having any dieback in 5b.
Timbo
Chumono
Stupid thing is, if you try and find info on Korean maples, Japanese maples always comes up.
Timbo
Chumono
I dunno why they don't sell them up here....3-4 hardiness zone Asian maple.... Cool looking bark. What's not to like?
Not sure how well the leaves reduce though, but even as a landscaping tree they are nice.
https://garden.org/plants/photo/284860/
Not sure how well the leaves reduce though, but even as a landscaping tree they are nice.
https://garden.org/plants/photo/284860/
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I have never purchased from this vendor, got a couple of their catalogs. Small family business, have talk to Patricia / owner a couple of times about the trees.
http://www.essenceofthetree.com/
http://www.essenceofthetree.com/
Timbo
Chumono
Problem with all the vendors is the prices, Went a few hours south and found a Korean maple 'North wind', 1/2 inch bean pole with a crappy graft knot for $130-140. I wouldn't buy it for landscaping let alone bonsai. If it says maple they want a ton of money, I'd rather grow my own from seed and have the same thing in 2-3 years, with a nice root system and no bad graft knots. If it was 1 inch+ or bigger trunk, you are looking at $200-$300 for just about any Asian maple. It's a bummer really.
If it says maple they want a ton of money, I'd rather grow my own from seed and have the same thing in 2-3 years, with a nice root system and no bad graft knots. If it was 1 inch+ or bigger trunk, you are looking at $200-$300 for just about any Asian maple. It's a bummer really.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Do that. Grow your own then see what you would need to charge to break even for your efforts. Even if you paid yourself minimum wage for an hour a month of care, factor soil and forget water, you’re in $100/year.Problem with all the vendors is the prices, Went a few hours south and found a Korean maple 'North wind', 1/2 inch bean pole with a crappy graft knot for $130-140. I wouldn't buy it for landscaping let alone bonsai.
Get a bunch of seeds, grow a bunch of trees. Keep the best for yourself, and start putting price tags on the rest. Let’s see where your prices end up for the seconds. Post them here and we’ll judge.?
Timbo
Chumono
That's the nice thing, I don't have to pay myself min wage. I dunno where you come up with a $100/year for one tree, esp when you are mass producing.
I don't get bulk prices and it would cost me roughly $2-$3 for pots/soil to grown a small tree/seedling for a few year (assuming i didn't recycle).
Hard to imagine they would sell a 2-3 year old tree for a loss of $160.
Even small time people can do 1000's of maples at a time....mostly cuttings.
People sell 1-2 year old cuttings for somewhere between $10-$20, and still claim to make a profit.
It's funny because you can get trees online that aren't called bonsai or JM for somewhere in that range.
It would make sense if you pay more for quality, not really so, most of the maples you see look bad if you aren't buying a bonsai tree.
Let's just assume on the cheap end, i'm watering/fertilizing a 1000 seedlings for a hour twice a week at $10 a hour (Why would you not have automated) $1,120 a year, just in labor. or you can double it with taxes to $2,240...i don't care. $2.40 in care. Plus i pay .30 cents- $1 for each time i pot/repot/soil for materials. You are looking at somewhere around $5-$6 a year, which i think is still on the high side.
You also assume these trees get care, most trees at a nursery i see are pot bound, dry/bad soil, i find it hard to believe they don't just set them in a corner and do nothing but water.
Obv, there is a lot of little stuff to pay for as a nursery. The biggest IMO would be the up front cost of buildings, but not really necessary for everyone.
I'd really like to see any data where you are mass producing seedlings and it cost a $100 a tree/yr. You must being doing something wrong, or not making a profit...then why are you doing it?
IMO, it has nothing to do with the cost of making them, i can get about the same time/labor trees that are common conifers for $5-$25.
It's about what they can get people to pay for them, problem is, i see a lot of them go to waste from lack of care or no one wants to buy them.
If i'm not getting anyone to buy my trees for $100-$200, but i lower the price and sell them all for $50-$100/each. Not only am i reaping the money, it's also less overhead because i don't have them on a lot for 6 months to 5 years. (turnover)
I've seen the same trees sit on nursery lots for years because no one wants to spend that kind of money on them, so they are keeping lot space trying to sell these trees no one wants for $300. If they are spending $100/yr in care then they are losing tons of money each year by not reducing prices.
BTW, I do my own seeds, quit a bit. Most of my cost is in buying seeds, as it's hard to find good trees seeds, esp Maples. Even at retail prices i spend about $2/tree on pots/soil if the seedling made it past the first winter. But other than labor i would have little to no cost if i had trees to take cuttings from every year (which i'm working on). If i wanted to get super cheap i'd use those 2x2 crappy plastic seedling pots that cost 6 cents a piece.
I don't get bulk prices and it would cost me roughly $2-$3 for pots/soil to grown a small tree/seedling for a few year (assuming i didn't recycle).
Hard to imagine they would sell a 2-3 year old tree for a loss of $160.
Even small time people can do 1000's of maples at a time....mostly cuttings.
People sell 1-2 year old cuttings for somewhere between $10-$20, and still claim to make a profit.
It's funny because you can get trees online that aren't called bonsai or JM for somewhere in that range.
It would make sense if you pay more for quality, not really so, most of the maples you see look bad if you aren't buying a bonsai tree.
Let's just assume on the cheap end, i'm watering/fertilizing a 1000 seedlings for a hour twice a week at $10 a hour (Why would you not have automated) $1,120 a year, just in labor. or you can double it with taxes to $2,240...i don't care. $2.40 in care. Plus i pay .30 cents- $1 for each time i pot/repot/soil for materials. You are looking at somewhere around $5-$6 a year, which i think is still on the high side.
You also assume these trees get care, most trees at a nursery i see are pot bound, dry/bad soil, i find it hard to believe they don't just set them in a corner and do nothing but water.
Obv, there is a lot of little stuff to pay for as a nursery. The biggest IMO would be the up front cost of buildings, but not really necessary for everyone.
I'd really like to see any data where you are mass producing seedlings and it cost a $100 a tree/yr. You must being doing something wrong, or not making a profit...then why are you doing it?
IMO, it has nothing to do with the cost of making them, i can get about the same time/labor trees that are common conifers for $5-$25.
It's about what they can get people to pay for them, problem is, i see a lot of them go to waste from lack of care or no one wants to buy them.
If i'm not getting anyone to buy my trees for $100-$200, but i lower the price and sell them all for $50-$100/each. Not only am i reaping the money, it's also less overhead because i don't have them on a lot for 6 months to 5 years. (turnover)
I've seen the same trees sit on nursery lots for years because no one wants to spend that kind of money on them, so they are keeping lot space trying to sell these trees no one wants for $300. If they are spending $100/yr in care then they are losing tons of money each year by not reducing prices.
BTW, I do my own seeds, quit a bit. Most of my cost is in buying seeds, as it's hard to find good trees seeds, esp Maples. Even at retail prices i spend about $2/tree on pots/soil if the seedling made it past the first winter. But other than labor i would have little to no cost if i had trees to take cuttings from every year (which i'm working on). If i wanted to get super cheap i'd use those 2x2 crappy plastic seedling pots that cost 6 cents a piece.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
I’m not doing it at all, because I value my time too much. I have some cuttings going for fun, but Its nothing compared to a real operation, and no basis to complain that nurseries are charging too much since you can do it in your yard for “free”. If you feel like you don’t have to pay yourself, your efforts may not be worth anything by the time you’re ready to cash in. It’s something everyone needs to consider before they go make their first million growing Bonsai.
Timbo
Chumono
Way to twist what i said and say you have no clue about growing. Thumbs up! If at first you can't dispute anything, throw it back in the face of others!
Not that i need to justify myself, but i value my money more than most people, If i spend money i need to justify to myself why i am spending it. Just because you thinks it's OK to spend $140-300 on a skinny stem doesn't mean other want/ can/will spend it, neither does it make it worth it because you are willing to spend the money.
Pretty cocky to talk about making millions off bonsai, never once was the subject. If i can make a few bucks off something i like to do, all the better, if not who cares?
Not that i need to justify myself, but i value my money more than most people, If i spend money i need to justify to myself why i am spending it. Just because you thinks it's OK to spend $140-300 on a skinny stem doesn't mean other want/ can/will spend it, neither does it make it worth it because you are willing to spend the money.
Pretty cocky to talk about making millions off bonsai, never once was the subject. If i can make a few bucks off something i like to do, all the better, if not who cares?
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Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Nope, I was all along disputing your complaint that nurseries want a ton of money, and that you can grow the same thing yourself (implying less cost), which only works out if you place no value on your own time and effort:
So go for it. I’m curious to see what you have to sell in 2-3 years. I can tell you honestly that I have several J. Maples growing that I doubt I’d break even on, even if my time was free. What price tag would you put on these two?Problem with all the vendors is the prices, Went a few hours south and found a Korean maple 'North wind', 1/2 inch bean pole with a crappy graft knot for $130-140. I wouldn't buy it for landscaping let alone bonsai.
jmw_bonsai
Mame
Even your play cuttings are nice Brian! I guess compared to your show quality stuff they are down the ladder, but since they are more on my level of trees I still give them a thumbs up! And yes your point about work in trees like seedlings, cuttings, layers, etc are hidden but there! Since I travel I really haven't settled in to working any Bonsai, but I am growing lots of stuff for pure fun and hopefully the future. But lots of times and money spent. I do it for the fun not profit for sure! I was considering doing air layers on my trees this week, but knowing the work it will take ive backed off maybe next trip back home. Sure on air layer nice and easy fun, but when you start doing numbers 20,30,40 or more its work! And then keeping up is work. And like you work is money! I would only do it for the enjoyment because the profit is hard to find in the any nursery game, especially Bonsai material.
I set up my preexisting misting system this week so I think I'm going to go the easy route and do cuttings. At least then I just have to mix up some good soil, get some rooting hormones out, cut, and stick, place in the mister and then nothing for 2-3 months. But of course this fall it ill be more work for me to pot up, root prune, etc. Thankfully I love it!
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