Southern California Soil Composition

[Beng]

What are those of you living in SoCal using in your mix?

My previous mix for deciduous was approx
1.5 parts akadama, 1 part lava, 1 part pumice, a bit of charcoal "similar to boons mix"

For conifers

1 part akadama, [1 part kiryu, (gran-i-grit), lava, charcoal,] 1 part pumice.

Are you all using inorganic mixes like this out here or because of the Santa Ana's do you use some organic in your mixes?

I've had no watering problems so far, I have a drip system set up for multi times a day watering but since I arrived in early fall I haven't needed it yet.

Thanks
Ben

 

[bonsaibp]

Mostly all inorganic- though I use a little organic -redwood compost- with the D trees.
Typical mix for my bonsai is 1 part each Scoria(lava) pumice and akadama and a handfull of charcoal.

 

[Si Nguyen]

There's no difference than anywhere else really. I use the same inorganic mix too, for my potted trees. Akadama+lava+pumice.

For pre-bonsai's in nursery cans, I use store-bought cactus mix and add in more pumice and turface. Turface is cheap and easy to find in SoCal. The store bought cactus mix have a little bit of peat and compost and a whole lot of saw dust and sand and pumice. It's not the best but it is safe to use right out of the bag , because it does not have fertilizers like sewage in it like other HomeDepot potting soil. Don't use Home Depot potting soil in your potted bonsai. Risky! Armstrong Nurseries and most independent nurseries have a good brand of cactus mix. I always have a few bags around for any quick repotting jobs. I learned to use cactus mix from Lindsay Shiba years ago when I first started doing bonsai.

 

[Poink88]

Mostly all inorganic- though I use a little organic -redwood compost- with the D trees.
Typical mix for my bonsai is 1 part each Scoria(lava) pumice and akadama and a handfull of charcoal.

Thanks. How much is the handful of charcoal percent (or part) wise to the mix? I mean I am not sure how much is the batch you are making...could be a gallon could be 5 or 10.

 

[GrimLore]

Never used charcoal - seems to me it has no organic value and dry stall is less expensive. Just my opinion but really do not see a need for it

Grimmy

 

[Smoke]

Never used charcoal - seems to me it has no organic value and dry stall is less expensive. Just my opinion but really do not see a need for it

Grimmy

Charcoal is used for many reasons.

One, it has organic properties due to it being wood. It also has some humate properties as does leonardite which is coal, and it also sweetens the soil by helping reduce the Ph to slightly acid.
Two, More than that it is a good soil purifier by reducing built up salts and removing metals and other toxic fumes. There is no better resevoir for removing salts in soil.

 

[GrimLore]

Charcoal is used for many reasons.

One, it has organic properties due to it being wood. It also has some humate properties as does leonardite which is coal, and it also sweetens the soil by helping reduce the Ph to slightly acid.
Two, More than that it is a good soil purifier by reducing built up salts and removing metals and other toxic fumes. There is no better resevoir for removing salts in soil.

I find it hard to believe it has any organic value after being reduced to charcoal(pretty much dead and inorganic not wood anymore) so I must be thinking about real charcoal and not the types used. That puts me to the reasoning that pumice does just as well. Sounds to me like everyone is talking about something similar to what is used in aquariums and some hydroponics. Again, not needed by me unless I fire up a few tanks at the new house.

Grimmy

 

[Smoke]

I find it hard to believe it has any organic value after being reduced to charcoal(pretty much dead and inorganic not wood anymore) so I must be thinking about real charcoal and not the types used. That puts me to the reasoning that pumice does just as well. Sounds to me like everyone is talking about something similar to what is used in aquariums and some hydroponics. Again, not needed by me unless I fire up a few tanks at the new house.

Grimmy

Grimmy, not to be rude, but you need to hit the books on what charcoal is. Not only is it some of the best fertilizer there is, it is totaly organic.

You do understand what organic means? You do understand that the Giant sequoia cannot reproduce except after a fire. It needs the fire to release the seeds and it needs the charcoal and ash to germinate the seed. No more fires....no more big trees. For years the forestry dept here in California did and spent huge sums of money to keep fire out of the National Parks. Now they allow such burns there periodically to ensure the forest survival. Sometimes even man can screw things up.

Do you understand why the charcoal is used in aquairium filters? It is two fold and the same reasons I explained why some use it in soil. It removes toxins, and it lowers the Ph of the water. That is why charcoal is not used on aquariums that house African Chiclids. They use zeolite.

Many use activated charcoal in aquariums. Activated charcoal is made by roasting coconut shell in an absolute vacuum. It is so dry and open that when water is poured on it, it will sizzle.

The bottom line, is it needed, hell no. I just answered a question on why it is used. Just don't use it....no bonsai police....yet!

 

[macdad]

Thanks. How much is the handful of charcoal percent (or part) wise to the mix? I mean I am not sure how much is the batch you are making...could be a gallon could be 5 or 10.

Curious to the answer to this question. I have some charcoal sitting around that I could add to my mix. I don't see how it could hurt.

 

[Smoke]

Curious to the answer to this question. I have some charcoal sitting around that I could add to my mix. I don't see how it could hurt.

Thats is the point. Many use many things in bonsai that have no actual use in the manufacture of bonsai.

For instance;

do you have to use Japanese tools to make bonsai...no
do you have to put your tree on a Japanese stand to display it...no
do you have to use copper or aluminum wire to style bonsai...no
do you need charcoal or akadama in your soil mix...no
do you need Neosporin on a cut for it to heal...no


no, is the answer but in using them what do they hurt?....

 

[Si Nguyen]

Thats is the point. Many use many things in bonsai that have no actual use in the manufacture of bonsai.

For instance;

do you have to use Japanese tools to make bonsai...no
do you have to put your tree on a Japanese stand to display it...no
do you have to use copper or aluminum wire to style bonsai...no
do you need charcoal or akadama in your soil mix...no
do you need Neosporin on a cut for it to heal...no


no, is the answer but in using them what do they hurt?....

You use Neosporin on the branch cuts? Does it work? Learn something new every day.

I have heard many old timers use charcoal in their mix. I have never used it, but I will now. Now it really make sense to me. Thanks Al! The biggest problem in Southern California is the lack of rain. Rain drops absorb CO2 from the air , forming a weak carbonic acid, and help acidify the soil. That's why my trees all seem to perk up after a good rain. We don't get enough rain here. The soil in the pots accumulate salts and become too alkaline very quickly on tap water. Our tap water is really bad. I have got some maples and azaleas and elms that always get weak gradually when not repotted every 2-3 years, but I don't have enough time to repot them all. Hope the charcoal would help the soil stay good longer.

 

[bonsaibp]

Curious to the answer to this question. I have some charcoal sitting around that I could add to my mix. I don't see how it could hurt.

Literally a handful per gallon or so of mix. When we mix the soil in a mixer I put about a pound of it in what turns out to be a wheelbarrow and a half. Sometimes with plants where root rot was an issue I'll cover the bottom of the pot with a thin layer.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

It is worth mentioning that the charcoal in discussion here is horticultural charcoal, and not the Kingsford Briquettes used in the old Webber grill out back...

I have always used it with my black pines and junipers, sprinkled on the drainage layer. For all the reasons mentioned, it's especially helpful for those trees that aren't repotted as often.

Of course, I also used charcoal in my filters on my African Cichlids tank...they did fine, but it was always a challenge keeping the pH above 7.6, even with pink coral sand...guess I never connected the two.

 

[markyscott]

It is worth mentioning that the charcoal in discussion here is horticultural charcoal, and not the Kingsford Briquettes used in the old Webber grill out back...

I have always used it with my black pines and junipers, sprinkled on the drainage layer. For all the reasons mentioned, it's especially helpful for those trees that aren't repotted as often.

Of course, I also used charcoal in my filters on my African Cichlids tank...they did fine, but it was always a challenge keeping the pH above 7.6, even with pink coral sand...guess I never connected the two.

I always mx it in with the soil, but I hadn't considered adding it to the drainage layer. That's a great idea.

Scott

 

[GrimLore]

Grimmy, not to be rude, but you need to hit the books on what charcoal is. Not only is it some of the best fertilizer there is, it is totaly organic.

I understand and do read -

Odor Absorption:
Horticultural Charcoal does not absorb odors, nor lower the possibility of odor-causing bacteria. In order for the charcoal to absorb the compounds responsible for the foul smell of soil that has gone bad, it needs to be activated or super-heated so to create lots of air pocket to absorb odors. But horticultural charcoal is not activated, so it lacks the ability to really absorb anything.

Of course, you can use activated charcoal in aquarium shops. Those are called activated filter carbon and can be bought in aquarium shops. But in comparison with horticulture charcoal, filter carbon is very expensive. For your reference, while $6 can buy 24 oz of horticulture charcoal, it can buy only 7 oz of filter carbon.

Secondly, adding charcoal to make up ten to twenty percent of the soil volume is not going to have any odor-absorbing properties after sitting in the soil for a short while. It is like placing a small sponge into a sink full of water in hoping it will absorb all of the water.

Soil Enrichment:
While in some reports, it is shown that charcoal can reduce the leaching of fertilizer in free draining soils, horticultural charcoal, by itself, does not enrich soil. And in order to be a good source of potash, the charcoal must first be burned. Yet, then the charcoal will lose its porosity value.

Purifying Soil and Water:
Charcoal does not have a special purifying quality when layered into non-draining pots. In addition, it does not purify water by mixing it with soil. As mentioned earlier, horticultural charcoal is neither activated nor super heated. Hence it does not contain the necessary air pockets for optimal filtration like those carbon filtration that use activated charcoal.

Insects and Disease Fighter:
Charcoal has been recommended as part of the treatment for the eradication of a fungal disease, Cylindrocladium, which infects Box hedges. However, horticultural charcoal per se doesn’t ward off plant diseases, parasites, insects, or slugs. In addition, it isn’t an anti-fungal agent equivalent to sulfur or copper.

AND because of that I see Dry Stall as a better alternative...

Grimmy

NOTE: I am not stating anything to argue, I simply disagree...

 

[bonsaibp]

Where did this info come from?
I have seen a difference especially in shimpakus when charcoal was added to the soil. I once got 30 Kishu's that all had terrible roots. About 20 got repotted with charcoal in them the rest didn't because I ran out- all 20 thrived and about 7 of the others didn't make it 3 months after transplanting.

 

[bonsaibp]

It is worth mentioning that the charcoal in discussion here is horticultural charcoal, and not the Kingsford Briquettes used in the old Webber grill out back...

I have always used it with my black pines and junipers, sprinkled on the drainage layer. For all the reasons mentioned, it's especially helpful for those trees that aren't repotted as often.

Of course, I also used charcoal in my filters on my African Cichlids tank...they did fine, but it was always a challenge keeping the pH above 7.6, even with pink coral sand...guess I never connected the two.

Good point Brian. I'd hate to see someone using those easy light briquettes!

 

[GrimLore]

Where did this info come from?
I have seen a difference especially in shimpakus when charcoal was added to the soil. I once got 30 Kishu's that all had terrible roots. About 20 got repotted with charcoal in them the rest didn't because I ran out- all 20 thrived and about 7 of the others didn't make it 3 months after transplanting.

I am pretty certain you saw a difference because of -

Soil Enrichment:
While in some reports, it is shown that charcoal can reduce the leaching of fertilizer in free draining soils, horticultural charcoal, by itself, does not enrich soil. And in order to be a good source of potash, the charcoal must first be burned. Yet, then the charcoal will lose its porosity value.

To me Dry Stall does the same and that is all I was trying to get across.

Grimmy

 

[bonsaibp]

I don't know scientificly why it seems to work but it does. I'm still wondering about the source of your quotes. I'm a little leery when I see a line like this- And in order to be a good source of potash, the charcoal must first be burned.

​It's already burned- thats what makes it charcoal.

 

[GrimLore]

I don't know scientificly why it seems to work but it does. I'm still wondering about the source of your quotes. I'm a little leery when I see a line like this- And in order to be a good source of potash, the charcoal must first be burned.

​It's already burned- thats what makes it charcoal.

Like I said if it works for you that is great but I find other products that do as much work fine for me. The only organic 90 percent of my plants get is fertilizer and I depend on the substrate to be porous and hold it in place for up to 20 days of watering in the hottest weather.

Potash is by far not charcoal but a by product of the ash collected after complete burning of the wood.

Again, if it works for you I suspect it is because it holds nutrients for you but charcoal itself does not have any.

My information comes from a variety of sources. Mainly I speak to Staff at Cornell University and in some cases point me to sites I can quote freely without permission to reprint.

Grimmy