Species snobbery

Woocash

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I was once told that a tree can be defined as any woody plant which, all things being well, will grow to in excess of 4 metres or 13 feet. I Don’t know how true that is, but to that end, I find myself only really getting excited by the prospect of bonsaiing plants in this category. There are plenty of privet, dogwood, spindle etc growing wild around here, as well as all the garden centre shrubs, and they are often easier to visualise in terms of turning them into a bonsai quicker, but at the end of the day they would just be small shrubs in pots made to look like trees as opposed to actual trees in miniature. Also, to my mind it seems like a more fruitful way to learn quicker by just concentrating on 5 or 6 species or genus. In my case that would be Oaks, Elms, Maples, Hawthorn, Yew and Hornbeam.

I just wondered if anybody else has a similar outlook and why, or alternatively, am I being too narrow minded in my planning / education?
 

Warpig

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I have a feeling alot of people will agree with you then afew might say so.
 

Adair M

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Work with whatever you like.

But, for sake of argument, let’s say you live where there are a lot of Southern Magnolia. And you would like to have one on your bench. Unfortunately, no matter what you do, their leaves just won’t reduce. So, if you want to create the image of a Southern Magnolia, you’ll have to choose something else, like an azalea or a boxwood, styled in the shape of a magnolia.

Remember, this is an art. Not simply a miniaturization of nature.
 

AZbonsai

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I probably have 15 different species, maybe more. I am in the more the merrier group! I have been experimenting with desert trees. Many will never be considered bonsai by the purists for sure but I really don't care. It is an enjoyable hobby for me.
 

bwaynef

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Seems a rather arbitrary line you're drawing in the sand. Also, dogwoods and privets get taller than 13'. Ever seen an azalea bonsai? Just a small shrub in a pot, huh?
 

TN_Jim

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I was once told that a tree can be defined as any woody plant which, all things being well, will grow to in excess of 4 metres or 13 feet. I Don’t know how true that is, but to that end, I find myself only really getting excited by the prospect of bonsaiing plants in this category. There are plenty of privet, dogwood, spindle etc growing wild around here, as well as all the garden centre shrubs, and they are often easier to visualise in terms of turning them into a bonsai quicker, but at the end of the day they would just be small shrubs in pots made to look like trees as opposed to actual trees in miniature. Also, to my mind it seems like a more fruitful way to learn quicker by just concentrating on 5 or 6 species or genus. In my case that would be Oaks, Elms, Maples, Hawthorn, Yew and Hornbeam.

I just wondered if anybody else has a similar outlook and why, or alternatively, am I being too narrow minded in my planning / education?
genera?
 

leatherback

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I would say you are being too narrow minded :)

I have once tried to create a definition of bonsai for myself and came up with something like this..

Bonsai is a small TREE in a container that looks like a large tree
The idea is to develop a plant in a way that for all visual cues, you have a miniature tree. With nice strong surface roots, a strong trunk, and finely developed branches with lots of twigs and leaves. All in balance and proportion in a way that if you took a picture, it could almost be mistaken for a life-sized tree.

Bonsai is a small TREE in a container that looks like an ancient large tree
Most bonsai are created to furthermore represent an ancient tree. So a tree that has seen hardship. With well-developed mature bark all the way up the branches. Without any clear marks of tools or human intervention. A tree that even upon close scrutiny, does not reveal the process that created it.


The species categorization as tree-species is not the relevant part I would say. To me, it is the image which is important. If you pull that off with a lonicera, great. If you need an oak also good. I am having trouble with entering into the non-woody plant species but that might just be me. I know many people will consider jade and mini-jade and adenium suitable for bonsai. For me, less so.
 

Paulpash

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I grow both shrubs and trees as bonsai.

My only two criteria are that:

1.the end product must make a believable, good quality image and
2. it must have some intrinsic quality or feature that makes it appealing /attractive to warrant space on my limited benches.

There's many shrubs that are very attractive and might give your collection a much needed boost in terms of different foliage colors, blooms or bark quality. Here are some shrubs that are freely available where I live, I've turned into a bonsai and found appealing enough to occupy space in my collection.

Lonicera Nitida (Hedge Honeysuckle) lovely white bark and Jade green leaves. A great substitute if you struggle to find Birch or Jap Beech.

Berberis - craggy bark at an early age; attractive berries that persist into winter

Cotoneaster -lovely red berries, white flowers and great Autumn colors on some varieties. There are some with extremely small leaves that make cracking mame & shohin. No other tree that I've grown can reduce this small in terms of foliage size.

Potentilla - amazing, peeling cinnamon bark & one of the few deciduous species that look good with deadwood features. Extremely fast to turn into a mature image - very vigorous and easy to ramify. Wide range of pretty flower colors - yellow, orange, white, pink.

Chaenomeles or Japanese Quince - one of the most prolifically beautiful and early flowering shrubs. Very forgiving and hardy. Easily turned in to attractive clumps. Lovely light mauve glowing bark with age.

I could go on and on but you get my point. Confining yourself to just a few species of trees is to deprive yourself of so much beauty and, of course, challenge.

Japanese Quince and Potentilla, for example, are so massively different in their response to training that learning about them both and how to mould them into attractive bonsai is as appealing as watching them both burst into flower each year. In my humble opinion, after growing a very wide range of plants over 30 years, snobbery in this sense is self defeating and lessens the joy you can experience as a bonsai practitioner.
 
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Woocash

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Work with whatever you like.

But, for sake of argument, let’s say you live where there are a lot of Southern Magnolia. And you would like to have one on your bench. Unfortunately, no matter what you do, their leaves just won’t reduce. So, if you want to create the image of a Southern Magnolia, you’ll have to choose something else, like an azalea or a boxwood, styled in the shape of a magnolia.

Remember, this is an art. Not simply a miniaturization of nature.
This is a good point. I suppose I am just connecting romantically with the subject rather than looking at it from an artistic viewpoint.
 

BobbyLane

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if you have the space, spindle, privet and dogwood can be great bonsai subjects

these are spindle trees and dogwood from Walter pall's blog
2012-06-R2C_0918w.jpg

80a19c267fc97b2994134f5048ba8309.jpg


Dogwood
2014-03-R2C_3449ofw.jpg


Dogwood, Marosbonsai
DaHUr1TW0AAyLUq.jpg



My privet
s-l1600.jpg
 

Woocash

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Seems a rather arbitrary line you're drawing in the sand. Also, dogwoods and privets get taller than 13'. Ever seen an azalea bonsai? Just a small shrub in a pot, huh?
Yes pretty much. An Azalea is exactly what I mean by a small shrub in a pot. I’m not disputing the beauty of it, or the craftsmanship required to bring a high quality one to standard, it is just the look when compared to something which started out as a “true” tree. I just glaze over those sort of Bonsai ones quicker because the habit is naturally more bushy or shrub like and is harder, to my eye, to make as a convincing tree.

The dogwoods, privets and spindle all can reach over 4 metres, but I have never seen them as anything more than a large shrub. This contradicts the first line of the OP, I agree, but where is the line?
 

Woocash

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I grow both shrubs and trees as bonsai.
Thanks, some nice examples there. As a beginner, I am wary of going too fast, too soon as well. That is probably part of my thinking and the rush to grow a gazillion species may be a little overwhelming at first when they all have different characteristics and needs. I dare say that eventually I will branch out (no pun originally intended, but I can’t leaf it out now) into other genera (thanks Jim).

I do like the idea of turning benches into gardens in their own right and building up the colour and variety so as to create an overall image too. It is just to me, that a lot of these others would be accent plants, not the stars of the show. Not that there is anything wrong with that either, I might add.
 

BobbyLane

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i used to think the same way, in terms of some of those are a little 'shrubby' until i saw many amazing examples of what could be done.
 

Woocash

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if you have the space, spindle, privet and dogwood can be great bonsai subjects
Cheers Bobby. They are some lovely examples actually and in fact, some of the privets especially that I have seen make for magnificent looking Bonsai. I guess, firstly, I have not seen all that many proper bonsai in person to take in the true beauty of the more shrubby varieties. Secondly, these are generally just the backdrop to the beautiful deciduous woodland we have around here. The plants you just don’t notice at first.

Saying that, I only really realised what a spindle was this year, and now I see them everywhere with their beautiful fruit, they’ll make for a lovely winter image. (How long do the fruit stay on by the way?) I guess over the next while i’ll see the beauty in these sorts of plants as I do in the trees I grew up around and i’m sure i’ll end up with some. I’ve already found a stand of amazing spindle and dogwood in a compound where my girlfriend works.

As a beginner, however, is it better to stick with just a few and build up skills on them or to collect lots of species and learn from all of them?
 

Cadillactaste

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Do what makes you happy. But Adair offered sound advice. Not every tree that has a trunk should become bonsai if they can't conform to a degree to the techniques we apply.

I'm by far not a purist...I love the Neagari style. Which is also not for everyone. I've an odd olive. So who am I to judge. 😉
IMG_20190805_083208357.jpg
I just don't knock others people's choices. Because it's all part of their journey. And who am I to say otherwise.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I have somewhere between 43 and 130 species growing in my backyard. The sooner I find out what doesn't work for me, the less time I'll be wasting on those species in the future. Take JBP for example, the king of bonsai. People love them! I love looking at them too! I just found that no matter what I do to them, I can't seem to make them thrive. Not in full soil, not in various bonsai media, and the type of pot makes no difference. I'm happy to know that, because I was thinking about spending a pretty decent sum of money on a bigger specimen and that would've been a waste of money, effort and time. JRP and scots do very well, as do mugo's, jack pines, and a hand full of other pines. I wouldn't have known if I wouldn't have tried.
I believe it's better to have spent a few bucks on seeds and seedlings to see if it works, than to spend a couple hundred on something I might have to keep patching up for years before it finally dies.
Learning how to care for different varieties can help establish a good feel for plants overall. I learned a great deal when working with vegetables in a laboratory, things I can apply in bonsai too.
 

sorce

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"Snobbery" is an interesting word, since it's negative connotation will bring what it has brought. I don't believe this is a Snobbish act, though it depends on how thought out these factors of limitation are for you.

Basically, I think it's more foolish, more limiting, to use the word "snobbery" in this title, than to use only 6 tree types in your bonsai garden.

"Snobbery" is an attention getter sure, but likely attracting attention that doesn't suit your soul. At least I don't think you're Snobbish, since you're seemingly undecided still.

The word asks for you to have an uneccesary filter for the answers.

Anyway..........

One thing is for sure.....

When you see a straight bitchin' "non-tree" for a price you can afford, maybe even in a pot worth way more than the sticker price....

You won't be like...

"Oh, I don't fuck with those".

You'll buy it.

Best be some kind of prepared.

Sorce
 
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